Is alcohol a sin?

My apologies, I had forgotten which forum I was in. If the moderator wants to delete my posts, that's OK. In the mean time, just pretend I posted them in one of the non-fundamental forums.

 

Do you??? My KJV says "wine", while you seem to be saying that "grape juice" is the correct (or at least superior) translation. My KJV says Christ turned water into "wine". I believe it, you should too. </font>[/QUOTE]So you believe that "wine" refers to an alcoholic beverage? So when Proverbs says in 3:9-10 Honour the LORD with thy substance, and with the firstfruits of all thine increase: So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine. Wine here indicates fermented or unfermented?

 

In my opinion, no alchohol is not a sin. Don't get me wrong though, I have never drunken alchohol, and i never plan to but its not really a sin to drink it. Its a sin to abuse it to the point of becoming drunk and that causes you to do extremly stupid things. But maybe i am wrong

 

HomeBound said:

So shall thy barns be filled with plenty, and thy presses shall burst out with new wine. Wine here indicates fermented or unfermented?

Since wine is the intended result, it is perfectly normal and legitimate to refer to the product of the press as wine even though it has not yet begun to ferment.

Do "lumberjacks" make 2x4s in the woods? No, they cut down trees, which are made into lumber later. Same thing.

 

I disagree, alcohol is sin straight from the depths of hell.

For medical purposes, I agree.

1 Timothy 5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities. Timothy obviously had a stomach problem and if you were to go to a doctor for a stomach problem, they would probably tell you to refrain from alcoholic beverages. Wine is this passage referred to grape juice, because grape juice acts like a laxative, it cleans you out.

I agree, abusing nyquil is sin. BTW, I use the alcohol free nyquil. </font>[/QUOTE]I was just having a little fun. I have been around the world and have noticed that where wine is condemned the most it is also abused the most. I live in wine country where grapes are grown. My parents were grape farmers. I have never seen anybody in my family abuse wine or any alcoholic beverage. The fact is that we don't even like the stuff.

Perhaps you mught know that America is the largest consumer of prescription drugs in the world. It is also one of the nations that condemns a number of things yet abuses the very things it condemns.

Isn't it Romans that says we are guilty of the very thing we judge in others.

Why would you use any form of a sleeping agent anyway. Perhaps you need some physical exercise. That will eliminate the sleepless nights.

Are you saying that Jesus was straight from the depths of hell because he turned water into wine and even drank wine himself?

It is clear from your post that you think you can put one by me with your ignorance about grape juice and wine. Ever tasted real grape juice? Just how many hours do you think grape juice would keep without reirigeration?

How long of a period do you think grapes are harvested? So how long do you think grape juice could be supplied. I have read all kinds of nonsense by those who don't have a clue in an effort to support some pet theology. You might acquaint yourself a little better with how grapes are grown and harvested.

 

While it is irrefutable that Jesus drank wine--fermented grape juice--the admonition of Paul to Timothy, which almost certainly could not have been a reference to unfermented grape juice that essentially did not exist, was very likely a suggestion to use must. Must was a dried paste of grapes that could be used as a stomach remedy. Of course, Paul really might have been suggesting regular liquid wine, since Paul was not a physician and the state of medicine at the time was very primitive. It would not be denying inerrancy to consider that Paul had made a bad medical judgment.

 

I have read about this paste in one article among many about wine. I know of nobody including myself who has raised grapes who would attest to this method. When grapes are harvested it is rather warm in most cases. Grape juice would keep as long as any other sweetened drink. Pure grape juice is mostly water. Therefore you would have to boil an immense amnount to get any kind of paste that might keep because the sugar content might be high enough. I have personally tried this and I would highly question its validity. I would challenge you to get the sweetest grapes you can buy and try making some paste. The wine grapes I am familiar with are quite bitter and are not sweet at all.

In some countries today the water is bad enough that the people drink water with wine to kill the bacteria. Of course so many countries today have better sanitary conditions than they did then

 

Just take some raisins and a mortar and pestle. Sounds as if it'd work fine.

Just remember, though, alcohol is not a sin.

 

I just can not picture Jesus in a checkout lane purchasing 2 bottles of wine and a six pack of budweiser.
Maybe I am just too conservative but should we as Christians (like Christ ), be more concerned with how we can live to please Him instead of how much we can get away with Him.
If we show the same attitude with our spouses I do not think they would be very impressed with the love we profess toward them.

 

And yet He did the first-century equivalent.

Keep in mind that I don't drink. I never had anything but disgust toward beer, and didn't care for wine. I loved brandy, schnapps, liqueurs, and rum, and thought whiskey was OK when mixed. But I quit drinking when I turned 21. Ten years of occasional sipping had been enough. Never having been drunk or even tipsy, I was nevertheless afraid that some day I might do with alcohol what I routinely did with food. I've had two-or-so drinks since: a bottle of fruit-flavored pop I hadn't realized till later had fermented, and a few celebratory sips of champagne at one event. In between, I ate baked alaska once or twice. That's it.

So I'm not trying to get away with anything. I don't drink. But I recognize that the NT expressly allows me to.

 

Asking for a specific number is rather legalistic. Abuse is however much it takes to get drunk which varies with individuals. That's why moderation--deciding to stop BEFORE you get drunk--is the key.

 

Asking for a specific number is rather legalistic. Abuse is however much it takes to get drunk which varies with individuals. That's why moderation--deciding to stop BEFORE you get drunk--is the key. </font>[/QUOTE]Oh, so put the gun up to your head, pull the hammer back, but don't pull the trigger? What a bunch of junk. What is moderation? For me it may be a keg, for you just 1. Christians today need to stop trying to find an excuse to drink and find their way to their knees and ask God to forgive them for drinking that sin brew. As I said in the wine topic, if it's all so okay to drink, why does the church not promote it. Why not a beer cooler in the fellowship hall with a sign saying "take only one." After all, we are Christians and can be trusted to take only one right.? Again I say, What a bunch of junk.

 

Actually, some churches do have alcohol at fellowships. Some conservative Lutheran churches I know of have beer at their fellowships. Other denominations may have wine. Apparently they don't have the legalistic hangups that some Baptists have about drinking alcohol in moderation....

"Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations--'Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle', which all concern things which perish with the using--according to the commandments and doctrines of men? These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom of self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh." Colossians 2:20-23

God Bless

 

HomeBound said:

Oh, so put the gun up to your head, pull the hammer back, but don't pull the trigger? What a bunch of junk.

I agree . . . so it does raise the question of why you would actually use such an extreme analogy.

 

Americanized Theology! I guess so many Americans are the experts on this subject when so many other countries even serve wine at communion. What a contrast! Who is right? I tend to think Jesus is.

 

Not only is it distinctly American, but the temperance movement is only about 150 years old.

 

If drinking is a sin for you, then I suggest that you remain a nondrinker.

Alas, you have yet to prove that the wine was grape juice.......

 

Here is what I think is a good question on this "alcohol" "wine" deal.

If the Greek word "oinos" can mean either "grape juice" or "wine", why didn't our original "English" translators translate the Bible accordingly? I am sure that back in the 15th century there was a word for grape juice. I will leave it at that.

 

I posted this in another thread, and nobody commented. Any thoughts:

 

Taufgesinnter,

My brother went to school in Europe and travel throughout Europe extensively. Water is not as plenteous in europe as it is here and that is why at Resteraunts in europe they offer complimentary wine with your meal, but if you want water it is $2.00 a glass.

It is a fact that before modern water systems wine was the primary drink of the people. The fruit of the vine was much more abundent than wells in many places.

It is interesting that the temperance movement began in America about 150 years ago, but that it did not really take off until the early 1900's climaxing in prohibition.

What was the reason it really took off in the early 1900s - the advent of modern water and sanitation systems. Water became much more plenteous so temperance advocates had more ammunition than they ever had.

"Hey we have water and many other things we can drink now - why do we need wine?" Sound familar?

All it took was the ravings of a former drunk baseball player(Billy Sunday) and the prohibition movement was in full force.

But we must come back to the question at hand - it means nothing that we have plenteous other thigns to drink. If wine was not wrong before the advent of modern water systems, it certainly could not be wrong after them.

Like anything else such as food, sex, sports, tv, clothes and many other things - it can be wrong if it is abused(used for drunkeness).

The scriptures never condem drinking wine or even strong drink, only drunkness -period.

IFBReformer