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Is America Really Free

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by poncho, Jul 5, 2010.

  1. targus

    targus New Member

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    No one can stop you from thinking for yourself other than you.

    You have only yourself to blame.

    Perhaps you should stop just accepting all the conspiracy theory propaganda and start thinking for yourself instead.

    You regurgetate all of that conspiracy theory bilge and then want to suggest that someone else is removed from reality? :rolleyes:
     
  2. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    You have not lost any freedoms because freedom is an urban myth. All we do is change tax collectors.
     
  3. FR7 Baptist

    FR7 Baptist Active Member

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    :laugh: Then how did your hero Ron Paul get elected?

    As I said before, I can vote for whomever I want with a secret ballot without fear of reprisal.
     
  4. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    You don't pay very close attention do you?

    I've said repeatedly. That means time after time. That National Elections are all theater. I've never said that about local and state elections. The problem is that people get all engrossed in the national theater event every fours years while it's a total waste of time and energy. We will end up with a globalist in the WH house when all the votes are counted secret or not. We the people have not been represented by our "federal" government for quite awhile now. They represent the "international community" which you can read all about by clicking the link in my last post.

    And, no I'm not even refering to what the media calls "vote fraud" either. There's that going on too but it's beside the point. I'm talking about mass media manipulation here. You can read about that by clicking on the link in my last post too!

    Like what they did to my hero Ron Paul during the national spectacle you apparently still believe to be "fair elections". They did their best to shut him and his message of limited government and sound money out, but the word got out anyway.

    Does that clear things up a bit? Have either one of you started researching Edward Bernays yet?
     
    #64 poncho, Jul 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2010
  5. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    You are far removed from reality friend. I'm not just suggesting it I'm stating it flat out!

    Read your last post over. You've been so conditioned to reject any thought not sanctioned by the "establishment" you don't even realize it. But, I guess that makes you a "good citizen" these days.

    Just stay firmly planted within the faux right vs left paradigm and obey all the globalists in charge of our country Targus I'm sure they'll treat you like family so long as you do. :type:
     
    #65 poncho, Jul 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2010
  6. targus

    targus New Member

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    If the fiat money system were to disappear tomorrow...

    What system would you prefer?

    How would your personal life be different? Details please.
     
  7. targus

    targus New Member

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    Bumped for Poncho.
     
  8. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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  9. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    You think raw milk should be sold on the open market?
     
  10. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Why a constitutional system of course. I know the idea of sound money must seem crazy to you at this point (because of your "relative" comfort, and the fact that most of our bought and paid for politicians avoid the real here issue like the plague) but that's what I would prefer.

    How would your personal life be different if the USA wasn't forced to go further and further into debt to a private international banking cartel everytime it needed money? I would think this would be a no brainer but . . . the short answer is richer and freer, not just for you or me but the nation as a whole. Being forced into perpetual debt is inimical to liberty. You should already know this. How is it you don't?

    As long as we're asking dumb questions, let me ask you one now.

    If slaves were allowed to live in "relative" comfort would they be more or less likely to accept their condition?

    No nation can be free as long as it allows itself to be forced into unsustainable debt to a group of private businessmen. It's just that simple. What's so hard to understand about that???
     
    #70 poncho, Aug 7, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2010
  11. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    >If slaves were allowed to live in "relative" comfort would they be more or less likely to accept their condition?

    Now you are getting to the meat of the matter. As long as the majority of the slaves have a comfortable and financially (psychologically?) secure existence they are better off than 90% of the "free" people who ever lived. I'll vote for peace & quite, order, and comfort over some theoretical freedom.
     
  12. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    >>If the fiat money system were to disappear tomorrow...

    >>What system would you prefer?


    >Why a constitutional system of course.

    NON SEQUITUR! There is no logical connection between the system of government and the money system. The worst governments in history had metallic based money systems.

    We HAVE a constitutional system. So did the USSR.
     
  13. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    And maybe this is why the USA more closely resembles a corporate fascist police state than a constitutional republic today. Our founders "voted" with their own blood and treasure under the threat of being hung for a "theoretical freedom" all you have to do is go down the street and push a couple buttons on an easily hacked and manipulated evote machine.

    It's alot easier to accept tyranny when it's "relatively" comfortable and convenient to do so I reckon.
     
    #73 poncho, Aug 7, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2010
  14. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    But which is easier to manipulate hard coinage or a series of ones and zeros in a computer?

    The principle difference being the USA has a constitution based on the idea of individualism not collectivism. And no we no longer have a constitutional monetary system.


    The Recovery Starts With Sound Money – Judy Shelton

    The willingness to work for the sake of future prosperity is a universal human quality, but people must believe there is a link between effort and reward.

    The euro is beset with fiscal calamities that threaten its downfall, and markets in the U.S. are roiled by uncertainty over the government’s financial regulatory legislation. But don’t worry. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner meets with European finance officials today to discuss the economic situation. According to a Treasury Department statement, they will focus on “measures being taken to restore global confidence and financial stability.” So everything is under control.

    Right.

    What government policy makers in the U.S. and Europe fail to realize is that far from being seen as capable of delivering economic salvation, they are increasingly perceived as primary contributors to global financial ruin. Whether it’s the fiscal recklessness of spendthrift politicians or the refusal of government officials to acknowledge failings—distorting mortgage markets through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, skewing assessments of credit risk through loose monetary policy—the influence of government over the real economy is proving disastrous.

    No wonder people are flocking to gold as they flee government-supplied money. Neither the dollar nor the euro inspires much global confidence; despite the dollar’s relative safe-haven status, neither currency holds out the promise of financial stability.


    Sound Money

    Henry Ford once said, “It is well that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.”

    <snip>

    What, then, is fiat money? It’s exactly what we just talked about: money that can be inflated or increased at the push of a button at the say-so of a powerful person or organization. Nowadays most dollars are just blimps on a computer screen and it’s extremely easy for the Federal Reserve to create money out of thin air whenever they want to.

    If our money were backed by gold and silver, people couldn’t just sit in some fancy building and push a button to create new money. They would have to engage in honest trade with another party that already has some gold in their possession. Alternatively, they would have to risk their lives and assets to find a suitable spot to build a gold mine, then get dirty and sweaty and actually dig up the gold. Not something I can imagine our “money elves” at the Fed getting down to whenever they feel like playing God with the economy.

    As you can see, inflation and fiat money are very seductive and beneficial to those at the top, and very dangerous to everyone else and the nation as a whole. That’s exactly what Henry Ford was talking about. He knew that every country that relies too much on fiat money is ruined sooner rather than later.

    There is only one possible solution to the inflation problem: Stop creating money out of thin air. But we’re already in such a mess that the only way to have a real impact on the money supply is to increase interest rates so that people pay back their loans and borrow less money from the banks, which decreases the amount of money in circulation.

    However, higher interest rates might very well crash the economy. So the Fed’s current “solution” to overcoming inflation is… creating even more of it.


    Audit The Federal Reserve.


    The Federal Reserve is the chief culprit behind the economic crisis. Its unchecked power to create endless amounts of money out of thin air brought us the boom and bust cycle and causes one financial bubble after another. Since the Fed’s creation in 1913 the dollar has lost more than 96% of its value, and by recklessly inflating the money supply the Fed continues to distort interest rates and intentionally erodes the value of the dollar.

    Retirees And Investors Flock To Gold

    Despite massive Government spending on the stimulus and rescue program, the economy seems in no mood to rise even an inch above the level of collapse. The Federal Government expected to change the scenario of the financial industry by passing its $787 billion stimulus package. The size of the plan conveniently blinded the observers that the damage to the economy has already been done.

    The latest spending signed by President Obama included $300 billion committed to Citigroup, $700 billion for TARP 1, $300 billion for the FHA, $200 billion for TAF and around $300 billion for Fannie and Freddy. The Government spending has reached a whopping $5 trillion to save the financial industry from collapsing. But prior to this spending, the Federal Government had committed $4 trillion to keep the banks from failing and help them in restructuring. That is 9 trillion dollars!!!

    With an additional $787 billion into the rescue and stimulus spending package, there still is no guarantee confidence can be restored or certainty of economic growth. This can be said given the worst recession that has hit the world economy in a century. If the rescue package is unable to save the banking system in this deepening deflation, then who can guarantee that the Government will be enabled to reduce inflation when it starts to hit.

    What happens when the fiat money system no longer allows for anyone to enjoy "relative" comfort?

    Will you jump on the bandwagon then, after it's too late?​
     
    #74 poncho, Aug 7, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 7, 2010
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