Is anything really accomplished by this forum or not?

Just for fun - let us suppose that this were a question to be answered by experiment. We are going to test, by experiment, whether or not men have free will.

Can anybody imagine what that experiment could possibly be? Confine the experiment to something possible to be done by mortal men in the days of our flesh.

 

Paul of Eugene,

Yes that would be quite the experiment!

I wish people would at least be honest and say;

"I am not certain if I have free-will or not".

It would be like trying to convince natives in some jungle that there are radio and TV waves in the air.

They just don't believe it! Even though the waves are all around them.

Scripture proves that God effects salvation!

Scripture is proof that God affects the hearts and wills of people...even kings!

People may wish to push it all away....they may not beleive it....but it is true!

It is the Spirit who gives life ; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you who do not believe." For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. And He said, "Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father ."

John 6: 63-65

God bless you! KJB

 

Once there was an evil man. Without regard to his own will, he was placed on a border road between two kingdoms.

One kingdom was perfect and offered everything good, holy, and wonderful. The other kingdom was evil and offered every conceivable sin under the sun.

Anyone in the evil kingdom was an absolute enemy of the good kingdom.

Of his own will, the evil man was pleased with the darker kingdom even though the light of the wonderful kingdom was always present.

The evil man loved darkness and hated the light and all other things of the good kingdom.

He willingly chose to venture deep into the dark kingdom seeking the evil desires of his wicked heart.

He was powerfully overtaken by robbers against his will.

He was robbed, beaten, thrown over the side of a cliff, and left for dead.

He was left in a coma and therefore could not see, could not hear, and had no power within himself to cry out for help.

He was left in an utterly helpless, miserable condition, heading toward doom.

For all practical purposes he was dead.

The great and good king of the wonderful kingdom had received news from his agents that such a thing had happened to the evil man.

The good king himself went into the evil kingdom to rescue his dying enemy.

The robbers came by and attempted to kill both the good king, and the evil man. The good king had more power than all the evil creatures living in the evil kingdom.

He rescued the evil man. It was a genuine rescue and there existed no power in the evil kingdom capable of thwarting his plan.

The good king took his dying enemy to the best hospital in his good kingdom and made him just as new.

I ask a few questions;

1: Did the beaten man “receive” mercy by the “grace” of the good king or not?

2: Did the beaten man have to “choose” the kings kindness to “receive” it?

3: Was the beaten man capable of helping to save himself out of his dire situation, or was his “salvation” dependent entirely on the complete generosity and kindness of the good kings mercy?

4: Where was the mans “will” or “power” in this entire situation?

5: Whose will and power was important in his salvation?

6: Did the evil enemy deserve to be saved?

7: What did the evil man do to earn such favor?

Hope this helps out!

God bless you all!

 

TexasSky,

We do not love God because of free-will.

First of all you have not proven people even have such a thing.

Second and most important is that Scripture proclaims the reason why we love God.....and it is not because of free-will.

1 John; We love him, because he first loved us.

Eph 2:4-8 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God...

Regards KJB

 

Is "King James" and "King James Bond" the same person??? It sure looks that way.

 

KJB says:

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KJB,
It sounds like your boss needs Jesus to tell him to COME FORTH. And then, LOOSE HIM AND LET HIM GO.

John 11:43
And when He thus had spoken He cried with a loud voice, "Lazarus, COME FORTH."

John 11:44 (KJV) And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, LOOSE HIM AND LET HIM GO.

 

But who are you, O TexasSky, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, "Why have you made me like this?" Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honored use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory-- even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?

 

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This certainly doesn't sound like Lazarus had a choice:


John 11:43
And when He thus had spoken He cried with a loud voice, "Lazarus, COME FORTH."


Can you show where he could have refused Jesus' command? </font>[/QUOTE]I believe I explained it. Could you show where he could not have refused Jesus' command? People do it all the time...that's why they are sinners. </font>[/QUOTE]**********************************************

Sure, just look at this passage he did not refuse. I consider that proof.

 

Brian, no they are different people, one is a calvinist and the other is not. Can you guess which is which?

The president of my college, Gallaudet University in DC, was named I. King Jordan. Was actually wondering if either of their given names was King.

Oh, well. Back to the discussion on the usefulness of this forum... I guess.

 

No

No

Not likely

First, I think we agree that some will not be saved. So are you really saying that God cannot save them? That is the implication of your third question.

Second, you still are misrepresenting what we teach. Maybe you do not mind, but you are bearing false witness about us and I do mind. What we teach is that a lifeline is not enough. Those who have already drowned, who are dead in their sins, have no need of a lifeline. What they need is to be brought back to life.

 

TexasSky,

Scripture says;

"Father, the time has come. Glorify your Son so He can give glory back to you. For you have given Him authority over everyone in all the earth. He gives eternal life to each one you have given Him. John 17

Scripture says;

"My prayer is not for the world, but for those you have given me, because they belong to you. And all of them, since they are mine, belong to you; and you have given them back to me, so they are my glory! John 17

Scripture says;

who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1

Scripture says;

So receiving God's promise is not up to us. We can't get it by choosing it or working hard for it. God will show mercy to anyone he chooses. Romans 9:16

Scripture says;

For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ not only to believe on Him, but also to suffer for Him Philippians 1

Scripture says;

So you see, God shows mercy to some just because he wants to, and He chooses to make some people refuse to listen. Romans 9:18

Scripture says;

He also has the right to pour out the riches of His glory upon those He prepared to be the objects of his mercy-- even upon us, whom He selected, both from the Jews and from the Gentiles. Romans 9:22-24

Scripture says;

Well then, what shall we say about these things? Just this: The Gentiles have been made right with God by faith, even though they were not seeking Him. Romans 9:30

Scripture says;

" I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL." In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God's gracious choice. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace. What then? What Israel is seeking, it has not obtained, but those who were chosen obtained it, and the rest were hardened; just as it is written, “GOD GAVE THEM A SPIRIT OF STUPOR, EYES TO SEE NOT AND EARS TO HEAR NOT, DOWN TO THIS VERY DAY." Romans 11

Scripture says;

You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit John 15

Scripture says;

If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

All the people of the earth are nothing compared to Him. He has the power to do as He pleases among the angels of heaven and with those who live on earth. No one can stop Him or challenge Him, saying, `What do you mean by doing these things?' Daniel 4:35

I have tons more if you need them.

God bless KJB

 

What the passage says is that the objection that TexasSky raised is invalid. You are correct that it says "what if", but the point is to disallow this very objection.

Also, I appreciate your concern. I definitely have a pride problem and I would welcome your prayers on my behalf.

 

Maybe three were of their father the devil, and not God's children.