Is Baptism essential for salvation

You are right that your view does "sound contrary to what Jesus is saying" -- because it is!

You are saying that even if someone is a believer, s/he might still be condemned. That is a direct contradiction -- we cannot have "Whoever believeth on him is not condemned" and `Not whoever believeth on him is not condemned' simultaneously.

You have quoted from James 2 before. I have already said that the passage describes genuine faith. James 2:18b says it well: “I will show you my faith by my works” (NASB). A real believer will act like it. This teaching does not negate the above.

Right -- you will, because YOU KNOW TO. You also had opportunity to be baptized. I did too; I am a baptized believer on the Lord Jesus Christ. I will go this far with you: I think that a person who knows rightly about baptism and resists being baptized is an unbeliever.

Still, you seem to be wanting to change the definition of "believe" to mean "believe and do." If a person could instantly be baptized in water the very instant that s/he believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, I might agree with you some. The problem is that actions subsequent to belief are distinct from belief. It is that simple. If a person believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, s/he will seek to do all that s/he knows to do and can do -- but those actions are still distinct from belief.

Acts 10:43 has "everyone that believeth on him shall receive remission of sins" (ASV). It does not matter how well they did living within such faith. Everyone that has such faith "shall receive remission of sins." However, you say `Only those who know to get baptized properly and are able to do so shall receive remission of sins.' In other words, you say `It is not true that everyone that believeth on him shall receive remission of sins,' a direct contradiction to Acts 10:43.

 

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Written to username 2 Timothy 2:15

Well, evidently StandingFirmInChrist knows multiple meanings of the word "for" in common usage -- including ones not conducive to your case. StandingfirminChrist did not need to look up that word.

Perhaps on elementary school-level words, you should simply read the dictionary rather than quote it to us. As has been demonstrated to you multiple times, you are apparently the only one that needs it. Please stop wasting our time by claiming that words we have known the meanings of since we were in elementary school do not have all those meanings. Even children would be expected to know better.

Frankly, if you need the dictionary on elementary school-level words, you probably have trouble with reading the Bible in English with understanding. You might want to put an end to your trivial dictionary uses. That is a friendly suggestion.

 

2 Tim., I am puzzled by your statement of salvation in your profile. You say:

"If and only I am born again".

What exactly does that mean?

 

if water baptism was necessary for a person to be saved, then Jesus lied to the thief who was not saved before looking on Christ on the cross.

He was not baptized with water and yet Jesus promised he would be with Him in paradise that day.

Now, I am not brave enough to accuse my Lord and Savior of lying as some may be, but He clearly saved the thief while on the cross. Also, the crowd in Acts 10 were saved prior to Baptism, not before.

 

-- I assume you meant "after" or the likes of that.

This is commonly answered with what is called "exception theology." Examples in Scripture that are not conducive to the position being espoused are labeled "exceptions" and dismissed as irrelevant.

Of course, Acts 10:43-8 was hardly an exception to be dismissed. It was a precedent. The New Testament-era church did not dismiss it as an "exception" -- they made a major decision based upon it in Acts 15.

 

I see that too!

 

Amy, I said in an earlier post that there were other more subtle references to baptismal regeneration than the five I cited. You have just found one of these in Ephesians 1:13--"sealed by the Holy Spirit" is a reference to baptism.

 

Uhh, I thought the Gospel According To John was written in Greek.

 

The conversation was probably in Aramaic. Again, with improvements:

I do not care what any "Church Father" thought about that part of John 3:3-6 -- especially if they are as late as Justin Martyr and afterward.

I am interested in what was being communicated by Jesus to Nicodemus at John 3:3-6. As ancient Hebrews, they would have meant and understood this conversation in ancient Hebrew meanings.

Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, and Augustine were not ancient Hebrews -- they were Greek-speaking and Latin-speaking people from outside Palestine, and all wrote well over 100 years after this conversation. They likely had limited, if any, familiarity with ancient Hebrew norms at the time of Jesus.

The text does not mention baptism. It mentions "born again" referring to two births. One is of water, and one is of Spirit. Ancient Hebrews associated natural birth with the former.

 

Yes. It is a reference to baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Luk 3:16 John answered, saying to all, "I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

 

Then you would be wrong. Demons have no chance at salvation. They do not have the option of real faith in Jesus Christ as Lord. Humans do. If our salvation prospects and process was that of demons, well, we would fare better in a toaster. James's point in James 2 is that an idle `faith' is not a real faith.

"Belief stays belief, and actions are the result of belief. But faith is the belief and the action together in one word, and they must cohere" -- sorry, but the Greek typically translated "faith" and "believe" are variants of the same one Greek word. Actions that are motivated by faith are subsequent to belief and are separate from belief -- and are therefore not faith.

Acts 10:43 still says what it says: "everyone that believeth on him shall receive remission of sins."

 

I'm not a scholar on ancient languages. I know a few Greek words, can read a little Latin and know nothing about Hebrew. So you may be right but I would like to see something to back up your assertion about natural birth being associated with water in ancient Hebrew. Meanwhile, here is what Dr. Thomas Constable of Dallas Theological Seminary says about it.

To be perfectly fair, Constable doesn't agree with my view either, that Jesus was speaking of water baptism, but he makes a pretty good case against this being a reference to natural childbirth.

 

‘Antitype’

In 1Pt.3:20-21, “The like figure-antitypon which now saves us” – the “antitype” – is “NOT”, ‘baptism’, “but”, is “the resurrection of Jesus Christ”. In context:

“(18) For Christ also once suffered for sins, the Just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit* (19) by which He … preached … (20) when once the longsuffering of God waited while the ark was being prepared; into which ark … eight people were safely brought through the flood. (21) That Antitype indeed that now saves us – a baptism NOT a washing of the body of dirt – but (the Antitype of) a good conscience (and) a satisfying answer toward God through the resurrection of Jesus Christ – IS HE WHO is at the right hand of God having gone into heaven where (even) angels, authorities and powers are His subjects (now).” * “Declared the Son of God … to the Spirit of Holiness.”

 

Right on! :thumbs:

 

Gerhard,

Please edit these words into little bit bigger, so, I can read it better, even, probably, some people seem have hard time to read small sentences. Thanks.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

Fortunately your opinion will no longer have to be responded to.

 

I go against the grain in regards to Baptism at my church, I do believe that Baptism saves you. With that said, I do believe that you are not able to be baptized or in the case of early Christians that believed and were murdered, they were saved by a Baptism of desire. If we have the ability to be Baptized then we should. Just my 2 cents.





Acts 2:38
[38] And Peter said to them, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


Acts 22:16

[16] And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on his name.'


Rom .6:3
[3] Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death



John 3:5

[3] Jesus answered him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born anew, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
[5] Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.


Mark 16:16
[16] He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.


1 Peter 3:21

[21] Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,