Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation?

Disobedience??? OUCH!!!!

See for a OSAS that isn't a problem at all... Still saved not back-slidden... Etc...

But, for some Pentecostals the mere word "disobedience" sends shivers down ones spine, visions of Hell itself come to mind, and a mad rush to the Altar, or Baptismal Pool in this case.

This is where semantics can really be a critical issue among those of us who have different points of view theologically...

To one person is Baptism "Essential" means, automatically, that you can't go to heaven without being Dunked... To another it's a different coloration altogether.

IMHO, the moderate view is that a person should get Baptised as soon as they understand and are convinced of their own Salvation, and have made a irrevocable commitment in their own hearts and mind to serve Jesus.

But, is it a "scolding offense" from Our Father. No, I don't believe so.

I *do* think Our Father is "disappointed" when a person shows trepidation towards such an overt and public display of commitment...

But, many of us have children who have disappointed us. They are still our children... And, we seldom hold a "grudge"...

Mike Sr.
(Probably only 1.5 cents worth, if that... :laugh: )

 

Sorry Zenas, I didn't realize your earlier questions were not applying to you.

To answer your follow-up question, I'm sure that as a Baptist, you also hold that baptism does not save you, and not being scripturally immersed does not send you to hell.

I'm not going to beat anybody up over baptism. But if I'm asked my opinion, they get the full load.

 

Here's the only bridge I might be able to build between myself with my own 'beliefs' and someone else with his own set of 'beliefs':- my confession of faith:
I believe
The Election of God :
The reconciliation and justification in Jesus Christ of those
according to God’s Eternal Predestination and Purpose
in Covenant of Grace elected and
in the Baptism of Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit
sealed and attested in regeneration and sanctification
of repentance and conversion, of redemption from sin, and
of growth and perseverance in faith.

As anyone may observe, there's no mention of 'water-baptism'. As anyone must observe, the is mention made of a 'baptism' within Election.

I have found that - despite my own baptised with water status - of only value unto the salvation of my soul.

 

Is it necessary for salvation? No - but why would a Christian not want to be baptised? No - but it is the admission to the Church as a human institution (repentance and faith being the admission to the Church as a divine institution); without it, you can't participate fully in the life of the Church and certainly shouldn't receive Communion? No - but I would question whether someone's faith was 'living' in the sense of Jame 2:14-26 if that person persistently refused to be baptised.

 

A historical marker Matt!

We don't often agree.
However here I do agree with you. Whether Baptist or other denomination, histoically baptism has always been the door to the local church.

 

Great post. Simple. To the point.

 

:laugh: The Second Coming is indeed nigh...See, we Anglicans aren't so bad after all (well, mostly...alright, occasionally)!

 

Are we ready to dismiss Eph 2:8 outright?

 

Good answer.

 

I've always been mystified by those who will go to a church, declare that they have been saved, then insist that the church change its faith and practice to suit them.

It's as if they are saying, I want to join your church, I like the programs here, you have a good preacher, great music, but I don't think I ought to be baptized. I think you should let me in, anyway.

Or, hey preacher, I'd like to join your church here. I know you normally immerse, but I was sprinkled when I was saved, and i think it's good enough. To ask me to be immersed is a violation of my conscience. Who are you to judge my baptism?

What is just as mystifying are churches which will say, well, we want to be inclusive, and we don't want to hurt your feelings or violate your conscience, so here, sign this card. Good, you're in.

Well, it's actually not mystifying at all.

 

I would agree: it's the theological equivalent of turning up at Pizza Hut and demanding that they serve you a burger. When you're politely told that if you want a burger you go to McDonalds or Burger King, you demand "but I want to eat at Pizza Hut - and I want you to flip me a burger!"

 

GE:
Amen!
"God hath quickened us TOGETHER WITH CHRIST (= in Christ) : By grace are you saved! God has raised us up together (with Christ = in Christ) and made us sit together in heavenly (salvation) in Christ Jesus (= with Christ Jesus)"

Have you noticed the Baptist and the Anglican RC, relying on many words and regulations of men and tradition merely?

 

GE:
O no, Tom! You're looking at the negative of the kiekie; Here's the positive:

I've always been mystified by those Churches who, when someone will go to any one of them, declare that that someone has been saved, then insist that he must change his faith and practice baptism to suit the Church!

It's as if those Churches are saying, You want to join us, we offer nice programs here, we have a good preacher, great music, but we think you ought to be baptized. We think we should let you in, but first, be baptised.

Or, Hey convert, you like to join our church here? We know you believe God said by grace you are saved; but we say, be immersed or sprinkled then you will be saved, and we think that will be good enough. To let you in without having been immersed or sprinkled, is a violation of our standards, of our culture, of our history, of our tradition, of our laws; of our conscience!

 

What is this so different from the SDAs who only add a few extra dont's and do's, like, you must keep the Sabbath, before we --- we, will baptise you; you must pay tithing, before we --- we, will baptise you; you shall not smoke, before we --- we, will baptise you, etc. Nothing different, the arrogance is the same.

 

"For through Him, Christ, we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father: Now therefore, You are no more strangers or foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and of the Household of God (the Church)". Eph2:18-19
Edit: Read further, to verse 22!

 

Er, uh, GE, I'm a little dense. Are you agreeing with me or not?

And, what's a kiekie?

 

GE:
If we agree, it's good; didn't realise you used some kind of oratory language. I'm glad if we agreed and i misunderstood you; because, see, a kiekie is a photograph - you don't get them anymore, but in the old days a negative first ahd to be made and from the negative the real picture was developed - with chemical processes.

 

Hello Everyone! I'm not new to this site but i haven't posted in a long time!!! but for those of you who don't know me My board name is God's Word Is TRUTH! but My real name is Dustin, and please feel free to refer to me as either one! but I hope that we can all study the bible together in a positive manner to find what the Truth is!!!

Well, this is a really big disputed topic within "Christianity" today! some say you do and some say that you don't and what is funny is that sometimes both sides use the same verses to prove their "points"! but we need to make sure that we are not just quoting verses here and there but we need to understand the sum of the scriptures to understand the Truth of God's Word!!! (Psalms 119:160)

lets look at Mark 16:16

“He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believes not shall be damned."

some say here that baptism is not required because it doesn't say that he who does not believe and is not baptized will be damned! and it is true that unbelief is all that is needed to condemn a person! but what is required to receieve the gift of salvation? belief and baptism! lets look at it this way! i'm gonna write a contract saying that "you can have all my money, but to get the money you have to bark like a dog and run around in circle! haha but if you don't bark like a dog then you won't get the money!" just because i didn't mention the part about running around in a circle in the last sentence of the contract it doesn't release you of your requirement to fullfill that part! plus back to the text, why would someone want to be baptized if he doesn't believe?

#1 Jesus told the repentant thief, “Today shall you be with me in paradise” (Luke 23:43). The thief was saved without baptism.

that is true! the theif was saved without baptism! but when did baptism become a requirement for salvation? after the church was established! after the new testament was in force! because Christian baptism has no meaning with out Christ's death burial and ressurection! and Christ forgave him in person before he died so the new testament wasn't in force yet they were still under the old law! and besides Jesus had to power for forgive sins on earth!!

Matthew 9:

2 Then behold, they brought to Him a paralytic lying on a bed. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, be of good cheer; your sins are forgiven you.”
3 And at once some of the scribes said within themselves, “This Man blasphemes!”
4 But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, “Why do you think evil in your hearts? 5 For which is easier, to say, ‘Your sins are forgiven you,’ or to say, ‘Arise and walk’? 6 But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—then He said to the paralytic, “Arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.” 7 And he arose and departed to his house.
8 Now when the multitudes saw it, they marveled[a] and glorified God, who had given such power to men.


well i have to go right now but i will get back on later and add more! but feel free to comment on these!!!

With Love In Christ the Savior,
Dustin

 

Welcome Dustin,

With all due respect, the answer to your question: "When did baptism become a requirement for salvation? The answer is: Never! It never has been, and never will be. The Lord never made it a requirement, and you will have a hard time proving that from Scripture.

Let me give you my personal testimony, and then you can answer some questions for me. I was saved when I was twenty. I know beyond any shadow of a doubt that I was saved at that time, that my sins were forgiven, and had I died at that time I would have gone to heaven. The means by which I was saved was through an inter-denominational organization working on the campuses of universities, where I was at that time. This particular organization did not stress the local church, and neither did it stress the importance of baptism. I was not baptized for two years after I was saved.
Now tell me: According to your theology, if I had died in a car accident before I was baptized, and yet after I had trusted Christ, would I have gone to heaven? Give me an honest answer, and a straight forward yes or no, according to what your church teaches. Would I have gone to heaven: yes or no?

The Bible says:
Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
That is the promise that the Word gives. It says nothing about baptism.

It says:
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
It says nothing about baptism.

It says:
Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God.
It says nothing about baptism.

And I go on, with dozens if not hundreds of such verses. The burden of evidence far outweighs anything that you could possibly present on this board.

Baptism is a step of obedience in the Christian walk. It is the first step of obedience a Christian ought to take after he is saved. It does nothing for you except get you wet. It is done because Jesus commanded it to be done. It has no magical and/or superstitious power to save. Water does not save. Christ does.

 

Gees I hoped this thread would go dead and stay dead.

The Bible is clear about when a believer is saved. Acts 10:43 expressly says about Jesus Christ “everyone that believeth on him |receives| remission of sins” (ASV|ESV|ASV).

Because baptism is motivated by faith, completed water baptism is at a separate moment from belief. Therefore, if salvation is `by faith through baptism,’ then there are people who “believeth on him” who have not received “remission of sins” -- a direct contradiction to this passage.

Scripture does not contradict itself. If someone thinks a passage about baptism teaches something contrary, then that person misunderstands the passage. Every baptism passage is rightly understood in ways that do not contradict the rest of Scripture about salvation.