Is Christmas Scriptural?

No one is shooting the messenger, just questioning his sincerity. Does the messenger who complains about our complicity with paganism and idolatry have any enGRAVENed images in his wallet (secret place) which honors the goddess Isis and her son Horus, for instance?

Every time you use our gentile money you give tribute to these false gods by putting your stamp of approval upon them in the marketplace.

http://www.geocities.com/theawakeningnews/Religion-Great_Seal_Dollar_Bill.html

HankD

 

My point is because of what was not what is.

12/25 is the first day in which the light of day is discernably longer after the winter solstice on 12/21. This was thought of by sun-worshippers to be a kind of "re-birth" of the sun from whence we have a weekly celebration on "Sunday" or the Day of the Sun. Many churches have and advertise "Wednesday - Woden's Day" or "Thursday or "Thor's Day" as the day of the week for their prayer meeting.

This showing one more way how deeply entrenched our culture is in our pagan roots.

In fact we have another practice that is pagan.
If folks want to go strictly by the letter of the law then images of any kind are forbidden not only to worship but even to privately possess including pictures and money with gods, goddesses and images of created beings all over them.

Numbers 33:52 Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places:

There is no way to extricate ourselves from our pagan roots unless we take Jesus advice literally:

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

But we are not under the Law, we live by faith being led of the Spirit.

Merry Christmas
or
Bah, humbug

according to your faith.

How's that for an equivocation?

HankD

 

Enjoy, your chat - we just started our Christmas decorating, listening to the Carpenters Christmas, chex mix in the oven - LOVING IT!!

But I'm out of this discussion.

From the resident pagan.

C4k

 

yea, Bro James. Wasn't that whole Constantine thing a crock. A real convert he was, wink-wink.

Good ol' Emperor Constantine gave the already apostate church one big shove down the pagan tabagon-slide.

 

mioque,
I beg to differ with thee, it is called "Lammas in American traditions;Lughnasadh in Celtic traditions,Corucopia in Strega traditions and Thingtide in Teutonic traditions. It has a long history in witchcraft and is recognized as an autumn harvest festival. It does start earlier (August)but,
definately giving thanks to the sun god for bounty. Green and gold colors are used with yellows mixed in. Table settings in the home are important to give the sun god energy throughout the home. It is a ritual using an alter with harvested grains, fruits and vegtables. It is now suggested that canning is to be used in the rituals and the baking of bread for ceremonial offerings. It is sometimes called apple day. The Celtic sun god Lugh is celebrated during harvest and is sometimes referred as the Celtic Fire Festival. ****Not much of a stretch in my book, but for all of you who cant do something just because the pagans do it, this should give you some more things to add to your list.
Thanks ------Bart

 

I was not trying to hijack the thread in my last post about Thanksgiving by the way. I am waiting for Bro James to throw Thanksgiving out the window and for Wopik to answer my question. Being consistent in your walk and your talk is very important. Why should I listen and be inclined to change when the ones who say these things are of Satan and they have no consistent position? My real point is there are too many things that are of pagan origin to deal with so we might all just as well move to the top of a mountain and wait till the Lord comes back....right you folks who see a skunk in every woodpile go ahead and wait on me Ok?
Thanks ------Bart

 

<a href="http://reformedonline.com/view/reformedonline/xmas.htm#C3S1" target="_blank">Christmas
and Worship</a>

This website gives much insight into what constitutes true worship, and why Christmas, with all of its associations with paganism should not be a time of worship.
One must ask themselves the question: Is this time Christ-centered, or man-centered?
DHK

 

So what is your suggestion?

The pagans of the world would love to make it a pagan holiday with no reminder of Christ so they can party and get drunk and celebrate the way the world would like. It was just a few years ago that the world advocated what you suggest. There are many in the world who would like to change the name from Christmas to something else. If they had their way, they would take away the focus of an annual reminder of Christ and his birth.

Better stop using the days of the week and months of the year too. They originate in paganism too. Better not buy gas because most of it comes from the Middle East and results in supporting the Muslims each time you do.

 

No, I made the point before. There is a big difference between the name of a day and a pagan religious festival. There are a lot of things that have pagan origins, even some peoples' names (mostly those of Greek or Roman origin). The name of Thursday (the god of Thor) has nothing to do with the worship of Thor. No one worships Thor on that day, nor is it a day set aside for the worship of Thor. It is not a religious holiday; it has nothing to do with religion. It is simply a name with a pagan holiday. Lots of names have pagan origins. That in no way affects us, and to compare it to a religious festival is ludicrous.

On the otherhand Christmas is a relgious holiday which even Muslim Republics will grant to Christians. It is an important day all over the world. It is a day of worship for all kinds of denominations. It is a religious day. I hope you see the difference here. You don't take a holiday off for the worship of Thor on Thursday, but you take a holiday off for the pagan festival off for the worship of Satunalia. That is the difference. Christmas is the syncretization of paganism with Christianity. All of the pagan roots, pagan customs, rites, rituals, and idolatry were brought into Christianity and adopted by Christianity to celebrate the birth of Christ, a holiday that was never celebrated by the Apostles or the early church.
"How can two walk together unless they be agreed."
"Learn not the way of the heathen."
"Come out from among them and be ye separated."
"Be not conformed to this world."

All the background of Christmas is pagan in origin. It is not a bad thing to celebrate the birth of Christ. In fact we should be thinking of His birth more than just one day out of the year. The same goes for Easter. I certainly hope that you think of his death and resurrection just more than one day of the year.
When was Christ born? Sometime in spring when the shepherds were out in the field tending their flock, but not in the dead of winter, not on Dec.25.
Nowadays Christmas is so commercialized it has everything to do about spending money and nothing to do about Christ. Just on the news today, (the day after Thanksgiving), one man interviewed expected to spend about $2,000.00 on Christmas shopping in just this one day. I don't make that much in a month. Think how much of that could have gone to the Lord's work instead--if Christ had anything to do with this at all.
DHK

 

Maybe you guys should make a choiche, you have already pegged Christmas as the pseudo-christian rendition of 3 seperate pagan feasts, the Saturnalia, the rebirth of Sol Invictus and the feast of Mitras.

Bartimaeus
Nothing even remotely like thanksgiving is celebrated in Europe at the moment (no doubt it will be exported by American marketeers to our shores in a few years) and those festivals you mention were out of fashion centuries before Thanksgiving was dreamed up in a American colony that had banned Christmas.

 

DHK
"On the otherhand Christmas is a relgious holiday which even Muslim Republics will grant to Christians."
"
They do? Moslims in my country have been campaigning unsuccessfully for a decade to get some Islamic holy days recognized.

"You don't take a holiday off for the worship of Thor on Thursday, but you take a holiday off for the pagan festival off for the worship of Satunalia. That is the difference. Christmas is the syncretization of paganism with Christianity. All of the pagan roots, pagan customs, rites, rituals, and idolatry were brought into Christianity and adopted by Christianity to celebrate the birth of Christ"
"
Considering that you, Wopik and James can't even agree amongst yourselves which pagan holiday Christmas is copying I'd say there is little hard truth in that.

 

Next, I guess you'll be trying to tell us that Santa Claus isn't real.

 

Why stop there? Is our Mar's Hill calendar scriptural? Is our Mar's Hill money scriptural?

Jesus caught the Pharisees "red-handed" when He asked them to show Him the tribute money and they showed Him a coin with an image upon it.

The Hebrew shekel in Jesus day was the only coin without an image (until after 70AD). The Pharisees had compromised by use of Roman gentile idolatrous money (among other things).

Check your wallet.

It's easy to draw a line of your own choosing and keep yourself on the safe side of that line. What about God's line?

I agree that the Scripture should determine that line but it should be consistent across the board.


HankD

 

Sorry, I said I was leaving, but this deserved a chuckle.

 

DHK, great link !

 

When Jehu went up against the worshipers of Baal and their temple, did he save the temple and set it apart for holy use? No! He slaughtered the worshipers of Baal: "they brake down the image of Baal, and brake down the house of Baal, and made it a draught house unto this day" (2 Ki. 10:27).

[ November 27, 2004, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: wopik ]

 

Flee formulae, bear with the weak. While all faith is placed in Christ, the thing is safe. It is not given for all to see the same thing at the same time. -- Martin Bucer (1491-1551).

 

The pagans don't worship Christ on Christmas Day. They party and would like nothing more than to not be remnined of the meaning of the day.

What a great opportunity for people to be reminded of Christ and to see some in church on that day even if it is only once or twice a year. Some actually come to Christ then when they hear the gospel.