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Is Europe hopelessly lost?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by righteousdude2, May 24, 2015.

  1. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2 Well-Known Member

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    I was discussing the recent election in Ireland where the right to same gender marriage was passed. The person talking with me feels Europe has turned the corner and is going to be judged severely.

    My question is. Do you feel Europe, and for the sake of argument, America and Canada are on the same downward path? Has the church totally lost control of setting moral guidelines per the Bible? And will we, here in the states, face the same judgement for having the ear of God and turning away from His Word?

    I agreed with my friend about the above. I do not believe revival is a viable solution any longer. We have opened the door to sin, and it is like the tail, wagging the dog! What do you think? Has sin become the dominate force among people?

    I suggest that we are on a narrow path, and the majority of the people have made a choice to navigate and travel the widely traveled path, or shall we say, " the freeway to hell!"
     
  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member

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    IT MUST NEEDS BE. IMO, the thousand years is past, Satan has been loosed, the nations are being deceived, and the camp of the Saints is being encompassed, been happening for almost two centuries at least; again, imo.
     
    #2 kyredneck, May 24, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2015
  3. Earth Wind and Fire

    Earth Wind and Fire Well-Known Member

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    Imo also.....brother Hubert is convinced of it......so is Tom, Iconoclastic and Rippon. Is it the right road do you think?
     
  4. Baptist Believer

    Baptist Believer Well-Known Member
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    I’m not sure why many Christians have an expectation that human kingdoms/governments/rulers will align themselves with the Kingdom of God. The hope of Christians does not rest with certain laws, popular votes, or the rulers of this world. For the most part, they are irrelevant to what God is doing today.

    The church should establish moral guidelines through example, not by power of the sword. The church needs to first be characterized by living according to the teachings of Jesus, before wagging a finger at anyone outside the church. Using the example that inspired this thread, religious identities in Ireland are primarily characterized by being “Catholic” or “Protestant” according to the family you are born into. The labels do not necessarily have anything to do with one’s personal convictions about Jesus or religious opinions. I have heard a number of Irish people characterize themselves as a “Catholic” or “Protestant” atheist, identifying their political bent with a religious word and their rejection of God with the “atheist” moniker. With some brighter exceptions of course, churches in Ireland have not been effective in helping people become like Christ and live in the transforming power and life of Jesus. Unfortunately, things really aren’t that much different in the United States.

    I really don’t see God in the business of judging nations (the political entities composed of citizens) in the way that happened in the world of the Old Testament. God still causes nations to rise and fall as needed, but God’s focus seems to be on the growth and expansion of the Kingdom of God through Christ which will include persons of every ethnicity and language, from all parts of the earth. In the end, God will judge the nations (power structures) that are in rebellion to God and they will be no more. Those who are in God’s kingdom will never die.

    1.) Why do you hold the belief that “revival” is a solution? If people are in Christ, they will be preserved. Those who are truly followers of Christ cannot remain in rebellion for long.
    2.) Why do you believe God cannot extend transforming grace? You are not in a position to judge that.

    Sin became the dominant force among unredeemed humankind at the time of the expulsion from the garden. The Kingdom of God becomes the dominant force among those who enter into the Kingdom as one practices the ways of the Kingdom (commands of Jesus).
     
  5. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Short answer - NO!
     
  6. Rolfe

    Rolfe Well-Known Member

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    If Salty's answer is in response to the OP question, Is Europe hopelessly lost?, then I agree.
     
    #6 Rolfe, May 24, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: May 24, 2015
  7. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    My answer is "Yes"....although I am a pessimist and could very well be wrong. But I don't see America turning from it's current path.
     
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member

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    Talk about hyperbole.
     
  9. Rolfe

    Rolfe Well-Known Member

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    Unless there be a dire National crisis, perhaps.
     
  10. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant Active Member

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    No, I don't think they or we are "HOPELESSLY" lost. There is God's grace that is shown where sin abounds. Sin has always been the dominant force in men. Thankfully, we don't live according to men. God's power is much stronger, much more pervasive and more effective in changing a country.

    Political leaders won't change any country. Israel and Judah had leaders, but it was only when those leaders made themselves subservient to the Word of God that those countries became anywhere close to righteous.

    I am NOT trying to equate the promise of God for Israel to any other country. I am saying that God is still not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
     
  11. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    I think history bears out that in crisis we only turn to religion to get our bearings. Thats the pause before we resume our desent at record speed.

    That may be a bit of hyperbole....but perhaps not
     
  12. Salty

    Salty 20,000 Posts Club
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    Yes, I that is what I was referring to.

    Now, does it appear they are hopelessly lost- possibly - but don't we believe in a powerful God - I believe that revival could happen!

    When I was in Germany - we had our English speaking churches. As I look back, the regret I have is that we did not minster to the local nationals. Yes, we saw great miracles among military personnel, but think of the impact we could have accomplished if he had made evangelism of the German population a priority.
     
  13. JonC

    JonC Lifelong Disciple
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    I agree 100% (including the Germany part). I think that a revival could happen, but I think perhaps that there are other things in store for our nation. I can't recall a nation rebounding to that extent. In a way, I would welcome a greater contrast in America between the Church and the world. Sometimes it's hard to tell them apart.
     
  14. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree!
    We, as a nation, certainly made a drastic, and I do mean drastic, "turn to God" (???) after 9-11, but how long did it take for the hugging Ds & Rs to get back to cutting each other's throats ( :tear: ) & resume our fast track to degeneracy
     
  15. righteousdude2

    righteousdude2 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, for taking the words from my mouth!
     
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