Is God the Author of Sin?

[SIZE=+0]"[/SIZE][SIZE=+0]M[/SIZE][SIZE=+0]en have one nature at a time"[/SIZE] post #45

 

If that is the case then where did the second nature come from?

 

Someplace you lost me. I was not responding to that part. yes men have one nature at a time.

 

what second nature?

 

Most people question him as well Dave. Even Calvinists, believe it or not. Calvin is human, Luther is human, I am human & so are you. Sometimes I wonder about some in here though being able to make that claim...lol

 

The scriptures clearly tell us Satan was created perfect.

Eze 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Satan was perfect until iniquity was found IN HIM. The evil did not originate outside Satan, it originated within himself.

Of course, this must give a Cal/DoG a problem as they do not believe anything can originate outside of God. But this clearly tells us evil originated from within Satan himself.

 

I completely agree with you here Winman, but the "gnawing" question is this:

Did that evil "found" in him originate with himself, or was it a matter of God's sovereign design to create him with that seed?

 

Well, I have my own thoughts on that, I am sure some will disagree.

How can God create anything absolutely perfect? Only he is absolutely perfect, and therefore anything he would create must be inferior to himself. It must be inferior simply because anything he would create would be a creation, and he is not a creation, he is the Creator, he has always existed and always will.

Now, I know that sounds terrible as though God could not create something good. He could and did, the angels and men were created sinless. But they could not be perfectly Holy, that would be equal with God himself which is impossible.

This is one reason I disagree with those who say God could have made man without the ability to sin. Only God has the quality of being perfectly Holy.

 

Interesting thoughts, will have to ponder them.

For now, I am one of those "simpleton" "free willers" who is convinced that God created man with such to give "meaning" to love, adoration and worship.

 

Well, I agree with that 100%. God is love, and love demands choice. You cannot force anyone to love you, that is impossible if a person truly considers it.

If God made us without the ability to sin (which I am not sure is possible), we would not love him, we would simply obey his commands like a programmed robot. I doubt God would get satisfaction from this, I know I wouldn't.

 

Yes, it does work, though I would not personally use the word "created". And it is not dualism.

Since evil is the absence of goodness and goodness is all of God, then in order for evil to exist, God had to purposefully remove his goodness from the place that he intends for evil to come to be.

That action of removing goodness is the ultimate cause of the existence of evil. That is the case even if you fully embrace the Augustinian argument for the problem of evil.

 

You guys never cease to liken the physical to the spiritual do you? Yes, darkness is lack of light, and cold is lack of heat, but this is physical.

The spiritual is moral, it does not have physical properties. Evil is not something you can look at under a microscope.

You guys need to find a new way to explain things.

 

If you are so confident of your systematic theology then interpret 1 Sam 16:14-23 and tell us where the evil spirit is from without abolishing scripture.

1 Samuel 6:14-21, 14 Now the Spirit of the Lord departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the Lord terrorized him. 15 Saul's servants then said to him, "Behold now, an evil spirit from God is terrorizing you. 16 "Let our lord now command your servants who are before you. Let them seek a man who is a skillful player on the harp; and it shall come about when the evil spirit from God is on you, that he shall play the harp with his hand, and you will be well." 17 So Saul said to his servants, "Provide for me now a man who can play well and bring him to me."18 Then one of the young men said, "Behold, I have seen a son of Jesse the Bethlehemite who is a skillful musician, a mighty man of valor, a warrior, one prudent in speech, and a handsome man; and the Lord is with him." 19 So Saul sent messengers to Jesse and said, "Send me your son David who is with the flock." 20 Jesse took a donkey loaded with bread and a jug of wine and a young goat, and sent them to Saul by David his son. 21 Then David came to Saul and attended him; and Saul loved him greatly, and he became his armor bearer. 22 Saul sent to Jesse, saying, "Let David now stand before me, for he has found favor in my sight." 23 So it came about whenever the evil spirit from God came to Saul, David would take the harp and play it with his hand; and Saul would be refreshed and be well, and the evil spirit would depart from him.

 

no one is saying that god is the author of sin!!!

This is straw man!

 

personal insults edited

 

Sorry. I didn't hear you.

 

Thank you for sharing that with me.

Some of those you quote are.

Someone who can think for himself.

 

Apparently it makes him stupid.


Why is this behavior tolerated?????????

If this keeps up all the bb members with manners will eventually leave the board and all that will be left is....well you know.

 

No. Every one Winman. There is NO philosopher or theologian who does not use physical means to illustrate metaphysical truths. Not one.

You just called Aquinas and Augustine and every other philosopher and theologian in history a moron.

That does not make you one who thinks for himself.

 

Why do you tolerate the absurd rudeness of people who agree with your position and then whine when people who do not agree with you answer back in kind?