Is it a sin to wear jewelry & braid your hair?

i'll let paul answer you:

7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

so are paul's teachings in the new testament fully inspired of the holy spirit, and therefore to be followed, or are they just his own personal opinions which may be ignored?

 

Dina,
I think it is very dangerous to say that these are just Paul's words. This brings out the validity of God's Word.

Is it or is it not God's Holy Perfect Inspired Word?

 

>>so are paul's teachings in the new testament fully inspired of the holy spirit, and therefore to be followed, or are they just his own personal opinions which may be ignored?<<

Borrowing form a post from aefting
>>According to Strong's concordance, the Greek word for shamefacedness is aidos, meaning "a sense of shame or honour, modesty, bashfulness, reverence, regard for others, respect." The primary idea in this verse is to dress with a due regard for shame, specifically the shame of not covering our bodies appropriately.
It really doesn't have anything to do with looking glum or ashamed, having a meek and mild spirit, or being proud and haughty. It does, I think, say you should dress with dignity and honor because dressing immodestly IS degrading and dishonorable.<<

I don't think the full meaning is that we are to wear NO jewerly, just to wear it modestly, in moderation. Now, since "moderation" can be very subjective, just as "costly" can be, I think that is up to the individual wearer of said jewelry.

And, no, I do not think Pauls words here are equal to a *command from God*. I may be wrong, but I am not convinced of this. But, if upon further study, I change my mind, I'll let you know.

 

I NEVER said it is not God's Holy Perfect Inspired word. Once again, you are putting words in my mouth. What I said was Paul's word here "will" does not equal *command from God*.

 

I NEVER said it is not God's Holy Perfect Inspired word. Once again, you are putting words in my mouth. What I said was Paul's word here "will" does not equal *command from God*. </font>[/QUOTE]I asked a question, "Is it or is it not God's Holy Perfect Inspired Word.

You answered that you believe it is.

Then my next question is why do you think Paul wrote down these words, inspired by God?

Do you believe they were just for that time?

 

In an earlier post I posted that in America there were many sexual sins going on.

I have read that 65% of high school children are not virgins.

Do you think that this number would be lower if "men everywhere were lifting up holy hands, without wrath and dissension," and the women were wore modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety?"

I do.

 

&gt;&gt;Then my next question is why do you think Paul wrote down these words, inspired by God?&lt;&lt;

Because he WAS inspired by God. I have no doubt whatsoever about that.

But I also see where it says:
1 Timothy 2:1 "I exhort" "I"-meaning PAUL
"exhort"-meaning
transitive senses : to incite by argument or advice : urge strongly
intransitive senses : to give warnings or advice : make urgent appeals


1 Timothy 2:8 "I will" Once again "I"-meaning Paul
"will"-meaning transitive senses : DESIRE, WISH
intransitive senses : to have a wish or desire

Urge strongly, desire, and wish coming from Paul, do not equal a command from God.

&gt;&gt;Do you believe they were just for that time?&lt;&lt;
No, the Bible is error free and timeless. It is the interpretations that tend to have errors and are "dated"

 

Why do you think Paul exhorted, urged, desired and wished that Timothy would do these things?

Do you think God speaking through Paul also wants us to be exhorted, and urged to do these things?

Or were they just for Timothy and that time?

 

&gt;&gt;Why do you think Paul exhorted, urged, desired and wished that Timothy would do these things?&lt;&lt;

Answered in a previous post.
It had to do with the time and place that Timothy was. He was encouraging Timothy.


&gt;&gt;Do you think God speaking through Paul also wants us to be exhorted, and urged to do these things?&lt;&lt;

Yes, I think God speaking through Paul wants us to dress modestly, and appropriately for church. Do I think that means NO jewelry, no.
But that was not what we were debating. We are debating is it a "command".

&gt;&gt;Or were they just for Timothy and that time?&lt;&lt;

Answered in a previous post. No, once again the Bible is error free and timeless.

 

It seems that you are saying that yes we are to dress modestly, only for church but the rest of the verse about gold pearls, costly array and shamefacedness is not applicable to us? Is that correct?

In addition I do believe that these are direct commands spoken by God written by Paul to Timothy and are applicable today as they were when they were originally penned.

I am very thankful that the Father gave us women istructions for godly living.

 

Only God the Holy Spirit convicts of sin through His written word, not you. You can not, as much as you would like too, do the work only God can do.
Why do you continuelly think you can do the convicting and cause people to change anything. As my pastor said, if a person feels guilt casued by a person adn what they said it is false guilt, real guilt for sin comes only from God. Never people.

 

Only God the Holy Spirit convicts of sin through His written word, not you. You can not, as much as you would like too, do the work only God can do.
Why do you continuelly think you can do the convicting and cause people to change anything. As my pastor said, if a person feels guilt casued by a person adn what they said it is false guilt, real guilt for sin comes only from God. Never people. </font>[/QUOTE]I have read posts here where you have stood up against things that you believe are sins. Are you trying to convict that other person of sin when you tell them it is a sin?

 

Only God the Holy Spirit convicts of sin through His written word, not you. You can not, as much as you would like too, do the work only God can do. Why do you continuelly think you can do the convicting and cause people to change anything. As my pastor said, if a person feels guilt casued by a person adn what they said it is false guilt, real guilt for sin comes only from God. Never people.

i think either you need a new pastor, or perhaps you're misunderstanding him:

Leviticus 19:17
Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

Proverbs 9:8
Reprove not a scorner, lest he hate thee: rebuke a wise man, and he will love thee.

Proverbs 13:1
A wise son heareth his father’s instruction: but a scorner heareth not rebuke.

Ecclesiastes 7:5
It is better to hear the rebuke of the wise, than for a man to hear the song of fools.

Luke 17:3
Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

1Timothy 5:20
Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

2Timothy 4:2
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Titus 1:13
This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

Titus 2:15
These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

 

Do you think God speaking through Paul also wants us to be exhorted, and urged to do these things?
Yes, I think God speaking through Paul wants us to dress modestly, and appropriately for church. Do I think that means NO jewelry, no.
But that was not what we were debating. We are debating is it a "command".

It seems that you are saying that yes we are to dress modestly, only for church but the rest of the verse about gold pearls, costly array and shamefacedness is not applicable to us? Is that correct?


No, it is not correct. Read the context of the whole book of Timothy, this was a problem for that church-the gold, pearls, and costly array.
The women were wearing those things as a status symbol. Is there a problem in "today's chuch" with such things? Probably. Is it a COMMAND FROM GOD TO NOT WEAR THEM AT ANY TIME? No.
It is a suggestion from Paul, to Timothy, how to handle something in his church. Does it apply to today? Yes, IF this is a problem and/or IF GOD has convicted you of this
That seems to be where we differe on our views. I do not view a woman who is in church wearing a "nice" dress, with a gold necklace, pearls, or earings, or her wedding rings to be evil and sinning.
And please stop changing the debate topic. I am in NO WAY saying to dress however out of church as opposed to in church. As christians, we are to be modest at all times. For you, that is no jewelry, no makeup, a head covering, and dresses. For me, that is makeup-If I feel like it- my wedding rings, my necklace, my toe ring, my ankle bracelet, belly button ring, jeans/shorts/sweats,leggins, shirt, dress-whatever I feel like wearing that day that covers the *pertinent parts*. Does that make me evil? NO. That makes me a Christian woman with different convictions than you. NO BETTER, NO WORSE.

&gt;&gt;In addition I do believe that these are direct commands spoken by God written by Paul to Timothy and are applicable today as they were when they were originally penned.&lt;&lt;

Again, that is where we differ. I do not think it is a DIRECT COMMAND FROM God. If YOU feel convicted of this, then by all means OBEY the command. I do not agree that this is an across the board COMMAND FROM GOD TO ALL CHRISTIAN WOMEN, nor do I feel convicted to stop wearing my wedding rings or any other jewelry that I have/may get.

 

Timothy, you may rebuke him all you want, but it is the Holy Spirit which makes him "feel" conviction to change.

Depending on his heart, the rebuked may/may not feel conviction and therefore, may/may not change.

If man were able to make another man "feel conviction" and not the Holy Spirit, wouldn't that put our salvation in the hands of man and not in Christ?

 

i agree. but her post was basically a negative response to the question of whether christians should rebuke each other. they certainly should.

Depending on his heart, the rebuked may/may not feel conviction and therefore, may/may not change.

true.

If man were able to make another man "feel conviction" and not the Holy Spirit, wouldn't that put our salvation in the hands of man and not in Christ?

again, i was just defending the biblical concept of believers
rebuking believers, which is under attack these days.

also, just because someone doesn't feel convicted, that
doesn't mean they're not sinning. in my case, there were/are some things i did out of obedience to god's word that only later did i really "feel" were wrong.

[ July 11, 2003, 06:10 PM: Message edited by: timothy 1969 ]

 

in my case, there were/are some things i did out of obedience to god's word that only later did i really "feel" were wrong.

insert "not do" after the first "did", lol

 

The Geneva Study Bible says:

1 Timothy 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

Thirdly, he appoints women to learn in the public assemblies with silence and modesty, being dressed pleasantly, without any overindulgence or excess in their clothing.

 

apparently like broided hair, gold, pearls, or costly array in any event, i prefer the plain inspired teaching of the apostles over any notes in the geneva bible, written by infant baptizing heretics.

one could line up 10,000 men and have them claim the bible does not say what it does, but the bible would still be the infallible word of god, and our only guide for faith and practice.

Romans 3:4
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar...