"Is it ever right to do wrong?"

I truly, truly apologize; I know I said I wouldn't respond to Jefferson, but this must be responded to.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The verses explicitly says, "...I the Lord have deceived that prophet..."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, and the verses say God DESTROYED him, too...so how does that equate with "deceit is acceptable"?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>In verse 24 it says, "Blessed among women shall Jael the wife of Heber the Kenite be. She shall be blessed above women in the tent."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, Deborah does sing that.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>"...And all that stood by him went out from him" that showed that he successfully deceived them into thinking he was a friend to the point where they allowed him to be alone with the king.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your knowledge of history and customs isn't that bad, Jeff. When the king tells his entourage to leave, they leave. All Ehud said was, "I have a secret message for you," and the king told everyone else to go away. No lies, no deceit.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>He was at least a traitor on that day.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And his "blessing" for his deceit? Living the rest of his days knowing that he sold out the entire city. Yep, I'm sure he lived each day happy with that blessing. I know I would....(all sarcasm intended)

Your mis-use of scripture was using this passage to justify deceit and/or lying.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Why wasn't Isaac punished by God for lying?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Didn't you read the note? NOTE: The blessing came AFTER the truth came out.

That's not the same as saying "the blessing came while Isaac was still living a lie."

Look at the words of the king: And Abimelech said, What is this thou hast done unto us? one of the people might lightly have lien with thy wife, and thou shouldest have brought guiltiness upon us.

In today's vernacular, Abimelech is telling Isaac, Thanks, dude, for lying to us and almost letting us commit adultery.

Why didn't God punish him? Consider carefully: God didn't bless him until AFTER the truth came out.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Why didn't God visit a plague upon Abram for lying?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And how much longer did Abram have to roam around looking for a place to live? Yep, I'd have to say that that passage sure justifies deceit and/or lying, too....(all sarcasm intended)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>When did I ever say that lying apart from attempting to save lives was Biblical?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Based on your viewpoint, a lot of us here either don't understand the bible in the first place (remember, I'm saying this is YOUR viewpoint), or we may not actually be saved. Therefore, everything any of us posts is toward the edification and possible salvation of whoever reads this.

To that end, who can say whether you believe you're trying to save our lives or not?

Because no matter what you say, I'll always have to wonder if it's the truth, or another lie you've invented because you might somehow believe you're trying to save my (spiritual) life....

So there's no trusting you, Jefferson. THAT is the ultimate result of dealing in lies, even if we justify them by saying that we're only out to save lives.

For all: I'll repost again: Ephesians 4:25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.

I'll ask one last question: Who does Jesus (God) say the father of lies is? (John 8:44)

And I'll make one last suggestion: A topic covering why it seems to appear that the Old Testament "condones" lying, but the New Testament does not?

And with that, I'm done with this topic.

 

Don wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Yep, and the verses say God DESTROYED him, too...so how does that equate with "deceit is acceptable"?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because it says, "I the LORD have deceived that prophet." Aren't we supposed to try to be like God?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Yes, Deborah does sing that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you for admitting this.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>And his "blessing" for his deceit? Living the rest of his days knowing that he sold out the entire city. Yep, I'm sure he lived each day happy with that blessing. I know I would....(all sarcasm intended)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This very passage describes his blessing: "But they let the man and all his family go. And the man went into the land of the Hittites and built a city . . ."

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Why didn't God punish him? Consider carefully: God didn't bless him until AFTER the truth came out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then why didn't God punish him before the truth came out?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>And how much longer did Abram have to roam around looking for a place to live?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What verse says his roaming was punishment for lying?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>And I'll make one last suggestion: A topic covering why it seems to appear that the Old Testament "condones" lying . . . <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you admit that you do indeed see it.

[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: Jefferson ]

[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: Jefferson ]

 

(sigh)

(banging head against wall once, twice, three times)

Again, I apologize folks; PLEASE forgive me.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Don wrote:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yep, and the verses say God DESTROYED him, too...so how does that equate with "deceit is acceptable"?
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Because it says, "I the LORD have deceived that prophet." Aren't we supposed to try to be like God?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In that case, Jeff, ol' boy, are you now going out to destroy those YOU deceived?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>This very passage describes his blessing: "But they let the man and all his family go. And the man went into the land of the Hittites and built a city . . ."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I said, waking up each and every day with the knowledge that it was done on the blood of his fellow men.

"They" here refers to the people who offered him a choice, not God.

Are you really trying to tell us that you believe God blessed this man for giving up his city?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Then why didn't God punish him before the truth came out?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jeff, Jeff, Jeff. Answer this: If the lying about his wife was acceptable, why didn't God bless him until AFTER the truth came out?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>What verse says his roaming was punishment for lying?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, let's see: Pharoah was treating him pretty good, until he found out that Sarai was actually Abram's wife. Then he told Abram to get out.

Pharoah was glad that he hadn't slept with another man's wife, and angry that he had been deceived. So this man that had been sitting pretty because of his beautiful "sister" was subsequently kicked out.

Yep, chock full o' blessings....

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>So you admit that you do indeed see it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, didn't say that, did I? Said "seems to appear." I admit freely that I see where some might be confused, and say that it appears; I say that it only seems to appear.

Okay, that's it, no more, I'm done, absolutely, finis, outta here. Jeff, feel free to have the last word.

And Dr. Bob? You never did give us your viewpoint....

 

Don, you are wasting your time. You are dealing with a self-confessed liar. All habitual liars will attempt to justify their lies. You will not convince him he is wrong because he will take every passage of scripture and turn it into another lie by twisting it to try to justify his sin. He will even attempt to use your own surgery against you, and try to say your thinking is wrong because you are taking medication. He will grasp at any lie to make his own heinous sin more acceptable. Those who have no regard for the truth have no regard for the Lord Jesus Christ, who is The Truth.

[ October 25, 2001: Message edited by: Thomas Cassidy ]

 

Someone who does not want to see the truth will not see the truth no matter how hard we try to guide them to the truth if they do not have the leading of the Holy Spirit. This person has some praying to do. I agree with Thomas Cassidy I don't think there is anything more you can say.

Don- you do know that banging your head up against the wall burns 180 calories an hour right

UNP, Adam