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Is it God or Jesus who really saves sinners?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by convicted1, Jan 29, 2012.

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  1. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    This question I asked, was in reference to what a co-worker stated to me. He said that God saves, and Jesus does not. Therefore, he has made Jesus less than God/not God. He stated this, that Jesus was the Son, but not God.

    Now, I hope/pray/trust this clears up why I asked this. I see Them all Three in salvation.
     
    #21 convicted1, Jan 30, 2012
  2. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Very well stated!! Thanks for the "backup". We Raiders' fans need to stick up for one another, ya know?
     
    #22 convicted1, Jan 30, 2012
  3. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    Thank you for the clarification. Is this person a JW? No matter I would point him to two verses in the bible and let the word speak to him and if he still does not agree that Jesus is God then he is not a Christian.

    John 1:1
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    14
    And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

    If he reads those two and still insists that Jesus is not God then He does not have the Spirit and is lost. What would then need to be done is deal with him about salvation.
     
    #23 freeatlast, Jan 30, 2012
  4. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    He is a baptist. At one time, he was in a Enterprise Baptist church. A close friend of his was the pastor there, and was very ill. He helped him out(I think he may have been an assistant pastor{interim?}), and after he left, I think he doesn't have his membership at any particular church, but visits differering churches.



    Well, you have no idea of whom I am talking about. He is a "literalist", and he "knows" everything. I really love this fellow, but I do not talk with in about the bible much anymore. When someone "knows" it all, there's no need to even bother.
     
    #24 convicted1, Jan 30, 2012
  5. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    He called what he believed "polytheistic", whereas the rest of us were "monotheistic".
     
    #25 convicted1, Jan 30, 2012
  6. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    And furthermore, he has a degree from a seminary. I have never asked him where he went to, though. I wish I had......
     
    #26 convicted1, Jan 30, 2012
  7. freeatlast

    freeatlast New Member

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    That is too bad as it means he is in serious willful error. He needs much prayer.
     
    #27 freeatlast, Jan 30, 2012
  8. Christos doulos

    Christos doulos New Member

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    My friend. If I understand you correctly, then this is an argument dealing with the personhood of Jesus Christ whether it is between Jehovah Witnesses, modalists, universalists. Universalist constantly use that it.s not as simple as a yes or no question, "Don't you believe God can save everyone?"

    There is a misguided view where Jesus is used as some static tool by the Father to save mankind i.e. a doorstop. That Jesus Christ propped open the door by dying on the cross (or the illustration where Jesus is the bridge between man and the Father) and those who want to be with God can just step through that door, but really salvation is not some static happenstance. Salvation is an ongoing condition; the ongoing work of Jesus Christ in the believer, conforming us in His image; His likeness.
     
    #28 Christos doulos, Jan 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2012
  9. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1 New Member

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    Actually, it all THREE of the Godhead involved in saving us!

    the Father send forth the Son to be born, conceived of/by the HS....
    The HS empowered/annoited Son for his ministry...
    The Son died as the sin bearer upon the Cross, the HS raised Him from the dead, and the Father tore the curtain, accepting the sacrifice of the Son, and applying that Grace towards those whom would come to Christ!
     
    #29 DaChaser1, Jan 30, 2012
  10. Jon-Marc

    Jon-Marc New Member

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    Jesus OR God? Jesus IS God! God is a Triune God--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. "In the beginning was the Word (Jesus before He was born on earth in human form), and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God." John 1:1

    We are saved by the grace of God through faith in Jesus the Christ--so I would say we are saved by both.
     
    #30 Jon-Marc, Feb 13, 2012
  11. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Correct. I poorly worded the thread title.

    I don't know if what the fellow believes would be considered Modalism or not. Because what He believes is that there's God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost. God is God, Jesus is the Son of God(but not God), and the Holy Ghost is the Holy Ghost(and He's not God either). They are Three seperate Persons altogether, and not One manifested in three Persons.


    Anyone else ever hear this belief before?
     
    #31 convicted1, Feb 13, 2012
  12. DaChaser1

    DaChaser1 New Member

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    have indeed heard and read of it, but seems to be a mismatch combination of seperate cultic ideas that come together!

    Still is heretical!
     
    #32 DaChaser1, Feb 13, 2012
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