Featured is it Heresy to deny doctrine of original/Imputed Sin?

In these kind of debates simple terms and concepts get thrown out the window in exchange for spiritual sounding and theologically superior jargon. Lets grab a nice big glass of cold milk, shall we?

What is sin? It is the willful transgression of God's law. How is one saved from such a condition? By grace through faith. What is faith? The substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Take all of these simple, biblicaly defined terms and fit it into Augustinianism. If hammering a square peg into a round hole qualifies as making it fit, you now hold to the RCC / SBC hamartiology.

 

You say you are Reformed. What happened to sola scriptura?
Are your dictionaries your inspired source or the Scriptures inspired? Which one?
You accuse me of an "obsession with writing about as found in the Bible." You are right; I plead guilty. You claim to be a Baptist? The first and foremost Baptist distinctive is "the Bible is the final authority on all matters of faith and doctrine," (not dictionaries). Thus I gave you five different passages that the word death is used and five different ways in which it is used. Use the Bible! I also find that the dictionaries you use are not the most reliable when it comes to Biblical reference. The most standard work in word definitions, in lexical definitions is Thayer's Lexicon. Here is what he says about "death"

Notice that there are many places where he does not confine himself to "corpse" or lifelessness. 2a says "spiritually dead."
2a1 says: "destitute of a life that recognizes and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sin."
2b says: destitute of force or power, inactive, inoperative.

The last one is very close to the meaning that I give the word. Death in the Bible does not mean a corpse. It means inoperative. The Ephesians were not corpses strewn around the streets of Ephesus. Their spirits were inoperable, inactive, void of power. Why? The only way they could be made "operable" or alive is through the Holy Spirit; by being reconciled to God. They were separated from God by sin. They now needed to be reconciled to God. We are made in the image and likeness of God. That means we have a spirit. The spirit is alive, but not alive unto God. Sometimes that spirit is very alive unto Satan. But it is separated from God. You can't force a secular definition into a spiritual book.

As I have said, I already looked at your definitions and have found them wanting. I gave you a better source from Thayer's Greek Lexicon.
Your comment about continuing "through the Bible tour" and you ignoring it, is truly sad. Why on earth would you ignore the very words of God, and put dictionaries of greater importance then God's revelation to mankind. Yes, I will continue my "Bible tour," but if you don't take heed to the Word of God, then you have lost this debate before it has even begun. This is a Baptist forum. The underlying premise is that our debates are based on the Bible and what it says. That is our foundation. That is our authority. Again, I ask you: What ever became of sola scriptura? Don't you believe it?

I realize that. I haven't seen personal insults and uncivil remarks.

I don't believe I am in error, and that is why I show you the word of God. But you aren't refuting the Word of God, and don't seem able to do so.
For example:
How can a "Dead Adam" still commune with a living God, though he be dead.
"In the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."
He ate. He died. He talked with God.
He also died 930 years later.
He was separated from God twice. How so?

 

A person who is spiritually dead is separated from God by their sin.
He does not and will not have fellowship with God until that sin problem is taken care of.
It really is a very simple concept.

 

Dead toward righteousness; dead toward God.

As able to do right and please God as a dead man is able to do anything.

This is why the Bible says that EVERYTHING not done in faith is SIN.

EVERYHTING.

EVERYTHING.

NOTHING a sinner does is done with the motive of God's glory- NOTHING. PERIOD. END OF STORY.

So EVERYTHING he does- no matter how nice and beneficial horizontally (human to human) is ALWAYS sin vertically (human to God).

Our good works are to ALWAYS have as their primary motive God's glory. Jesus said "Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works AND GLORIFY YOUR FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN."

Even the good works of CHRISTIANS that are not performed with the glory of God as their primary motive are burned up like wood hay and stubble.

This is why the Bible says the even "The PLOWING of the wicked (sinner) is sin."

This is why the Bible says, "The SACRIFICE of the wicked is abominable..."

This is why the Bible says, "Though I give my body to be BURNED if I have not charity (the greatest commandment is the guide of what that is- FIRST LOVE GOD...) it is nothing."

There was nothing spiritually pleasing to God when lost firemen charged into the towers and burned alive saving others. (This is assuming that any of them were not saved. If they were not saved then God rejects the ashes of their sacrifice). That is how HOLY God is.

EVERYTHING the unregenerate man does- every step he takes- is sin in the eyes of God.

That is the meaning of "dead" in Ephesians 2.

 

No I believe salvation is of God the Father through Jesus the Christ the Son of the living God.

I do not believe the little babies would need to save themselves by any means.
Mentally, physically, emotionally or spiritually.

 

On the above we do agree.

 

Is the faith that saves, the thought acceptance which comes from our mind concerning a person, place, thing or event?

Or is, the faith, a person, place, or thing, an event, that saves us because of grace. That which we heard about and accepted in our mind as truth?

 

And who took care of the problem? What reconciled whom to who?
How did the what reconcile? Did it reconcile by justification? Did the what make just the one who had been unjust?

What is the what?

 

Yes.

You present a false dichotomy as they do not contradict.

 

Therefore will the unjust one, who was made just, by the what, also live because the one who shed the what, was given life again?

 

2 Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

 

A. Is the faith that saves, the thought acceptance which comes from our mind concerning a person, place, thing or event?

B. Or is, the faith, a person, place, or thing, an event, that saves us because of grace. That which we heard about and accepted in our mind as truth?

So did B. save Paul and he was saved when he left his point of origin that morning going to Damascus but he did not know it because God had not yet called him?

Or was he unsaved until that in bold entered his mind which would be a required action upon the one God was wanting to save, before he could be saved, which to me would fall under A.

Isn't the concept behind, "Rom. 3:10,11 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God," in truth that man does not want God to save him but that he wants to eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil and save himself. Be his own faith.

Isa. 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

To know good and evil. If we have to respond are we not the one deciding good and evil?

 

yes. Faith is the substance of things hoped for with the evidence not seen. This is a human trait.

yes. Like I said its a false dichotomy, not an either / or proposition.

see above answer.

agreed, and doesn't contradict A or B.

I don't understand how you arrive at that conclusion. If I respond to a wedding invitation does that mean I'm the one deciding if the couple will marry?

 

Following is a brief paper I wrote on spiritual death in Ephesians. I know DHK, and others of his ilk, will attempt to eviscerate it, but it lays forth a biblical and logical argument. I am not going to play DHK's hopscotch approach to exegesis.

A Brief Study on Spiritual Death
Ephesians 2:1-7
​

Ephesians 2:1–7 (NASB95)
1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,
2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.
3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

Paul had just finished telling the believers in Ephesus they were:

 Blessed with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ (1:3).
 Chosen before the foundation of the world (1:4).
 Adopted by God, as sons (1:5)
 Redeemed through Christ’s blood, and had forgiveness of sins (1:7).
 Recipients of an inheritance, in Christ (1:11)
 Sealed by the Holy Spirit (v. 13).

The hard reality was that the Ephesians possessed nothing in themselves that would have qualified them for any of the blessings that were just listed. Paul begins the second chapter of Ephesians by telling the church that before they were Christians they were, “dead in their trespasses and sins”. The word Paul used to describe their previous condition, in relation to their trespasses and sins, is νεκρός (nekros). According to Strong’s, nekros means, “a dead person, dead body, corpse ”. Nekros is a tangible word used to describe something intangible; the material describing the immaterial. What was Paul trying to convey, and why the use of a word with such finality?

The first thing that needs to be addressed is the interpretive difficulties of nekros. Nekros does not mean that sinners are literally dead bodies, although that is exactly what the word means. Paul qualifies the use of nekros when he adds, “in their trespasses and sins”. The implication is that sinners are dead spiritually. τοῖς παραπτώμασιν καὶ ταῖς ἁμαρτίαις ὑμῶν, literally “in your trespasses and in your sins”. Paul was not saying that the body of the sinner is dead even though the body is under the curse because of Adam. Paul is writing about the immaterial part of man; i.e. man’s soul. This is where nekros begins to make sense. The soul of the sinner is just as dead as a corpse is dead. Therefore, Paul is writing about spiritual death. Nekros is used to convey just how dead the soul of the sinner is.
Another interpretive difficulty is dispelling the notion that those who believe that the sinner is spiritually dead are contradicting themselves by proposing a logical fallacy. The supposed logical fallacy is seen as proposing that the sinner is spiritually dead and a corpse all at the same time. This opinion stems from a misunderstanding of the way nekros is used to describe the spiritual capabilities of the sinner. In verse 2 Paul writes, “in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience.” Immediately on the heels of calling sinners nekros (“dead”; the previous spiritual condition of the Ephesian believers), Paul now writes that sinners do act. In this case they walk according the course of this world. They walk as those who are servants in the enemy’s camp. They are, in a very real sense, dead men walking. Their soul is twisted, perverted. It is incapable of righteousness. It cannot serve God because it is both incapable and unwilling to do so. That is the depth of nekros. The soul of the sinner is dead to righteousness. This is what Paul told the church in Corinth:

1 Corinthians 2:14 (NASB95)
14 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

The natural man (the unsaved man) not only does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, he cannot understand them. Why? Because they are spiritually appraised. Only those who are spiritual, those who have the Spirit of God, can understand the things of the Spirit. This is the result of being spiritually dead; an inability, and unwillingness, to understand the things of the Spirit of God.

This inability and unwillingness places the sinner in dire circumstances. Left to his own devices the sinner will never seek God; or at least never seek God in the way the Bible prescribes (Heb. 11:6). The sinner is, as Ephesians 2:12 describes:

Ephesians 2:12 (NASB95)
12 remember that you were at that time separate from Christ, excluded from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

What hope is there for the sinner who is dead to righteousness, and cannot do anything to improve upon his spiritual condition? None apart from the mercy and grace of God, and that is exactly what we see in Ephesians 2:4, 5:

Ephesians 2:4, 5 (NASB95)
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Even when we were dead in our transgressions, God made us alive together with Christ! It took a unilateral act of God to radically change the spiritually dead sinner’s soul. The soul that was at one time unwilling and unable to believe is made so by the Spirit of God. This is the work of regeneration.

 

Herald ,
Thank you for this helpful post...along with post #53 presents a clear biblical case that multitudes in the church have seen over the ages,and can still see now.

religious sinners who are dead in sin as described here can "do many things" ...in the flesh.They can be religious and do things that the world considers good...but to no avail if they remain outside of Jesus Christ.

 

If he is "dead" he is separated. Show me one instance in the Bible where that is not true. Death equals separation.
Death does not equal "corpse." I can show you many examples where that is not true.
Our final authority is the Bible, not the dictionary. What is your final authority?

Define dead. Define alive. Do you believe God made man in his image and likeness? Does man (both saved and unsaved) have soul, spirit, and body?
What is the difference between soul and spirit, and which part is dead? Which part is the "dead part" floating around in the body? Is part of you a corpse in your body, lifeless? What do you mean by dead?
The soul is the mind, as in the brain.
The spirit is that part of man which is able to communicate to God.
In order to do so, it must be reconciled to God. How does that happen? It happens at salvation when a person puts his faith and trust in Christ. He needs faith. Where does the Bible (not Calvinism) say that faith comes from?
"Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God."
Without the Word of God one cannot be saved. Without the Word of God one cannot have faith to put in the message of the Word of God, for faith comes by hearing the Word of God.

If that is true, then how can you bring a dead dog back to life again?
A corpse doesn't come back to life. Someone separated, however, becomes reconciled. Death is separation.

 

I believe God created all there was to be created in six days.
I believe He created man in his own image and likeness, part of which is a tri-partite being. His image and likeness was marred by the Fall but is partially restored by salvation, especially as we become more and more conformed to the image of Christ. It will never be completely restored until the resurrection.

It is evident that we have a spirit. The unsaved use their spirits to communicate with demons. They can become demon-possessed. There is the entire field of what is known in the secular field of the "paranormal." The unsaved man definitely has a spirit and often it is given over to wickedness.

Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: