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Featured Is it moral to Kill in self-defense?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by robertguwapito, Mar 1, 2012.

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  1. seekingthetruth

    seekingthetruth New Member

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    Is it moral to kill to defend your country?

    I think, i could be wrong, but I think that God ordered His people several times in the Bible to kill.

    Once, didnt He even order them to kill every man, woman, child, and even the animals?

    Did God really say that?

    Sometimes we get all PC and forget that life is not as important as we think it is. Death, and eternity is way more important.

    John
     
    #101 seekingthetruth, Mar 4, 2012
  2. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple Active Member

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    I think, i could be wrong, but I think that God ordered His people several times in the Bible to kill.

    Once, didnt He even order them to kill every man, woman, child, and even the animals?

    Did God really say that?

    At the Mount of Transfigurtion, Moses, Elijah, and Jesus are there. God tells us to listen to His Son, and no longer the Old Testament Law and Prophets. Other places it is also revealed to listen to Jesus. When He was born, God said "Peace on earth, goodwill toward men". Love your enemies. Turn the other cheek. Bless your enemies. Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you.

    Luke 24:27
    Acts 28:23
    Matthew 11:13
    Luke 16:16
    Matthew 17:3-5
    Mark 9:5-8
    Luke 24:44
    Hebrews 1:1-2

    Listen to the words of Jesus, the One we follow.
     
    #102 plain_n_simple, Mar 4, 2012
  3. seekingthetruth

    seekingthetruth New Member

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    So? Are you saying that the Words of Jesus in the NT contradict the Words of God in the OT?

    John
     
    #103 seekingthetruth, Mar 4, 2012
  4. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple Active Member

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    If you will notice, God is dealing with man in a new way, grace. Look at the scriptures and it shows that Jesus, Paul and others taught people out of the Old Testament the things concerning Jesus only. Jesus contradict the Old Testament? I would not say that though it seems that way on the surface. This is the difference of going to the period of the Law and the period of Grace.
     
    #104 plain_n_simple, Mar 4, 2012
  5. seekingthetruth

    seekingthetruth New Member

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    I dont believe that God has ever changed

    The way He deals with man has changed, but God Himself has never changed.

    You put way too much value on human life. I look forward to dieing and going to heaven.

    Why are you so afraid of dieing?

    John
     
    #105 seekingthetruth, Mar 4, 2012
  6. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple Active Member

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    The way He deals with man has changed, but God Himself has never changed.

    You put way too much value on human life. I look forward to dieing and going to heaven.

    Why are you so afraid of dieing?

    I never said God changed, and I agree He changed the way He deals with man. Put too much value on life? Strange statement coming from a Christian.

    I am not afraid of dying, I won't die, but I will be transformed and live forever.
     
    #106 plain_n_simple, Mar 4, 2012
  7. seekingthetruth

    seekingthetruth New Member

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    Now that is what I would call a good answer!!!:thumbs:

    john
     
    #107 seekingthetruth, Mar 4, 2012
  8. seekingthetruth

    seekingthetruth New Member

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    Life is just a blink of an eye compared to eternity.

    Why is it strange for a Christian to want to pass on to eternity?

    John
     
    #108 seekingthetruth, Mar 4, 2012
  9. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple Active Member

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    It's strange in that it is a selfish desire compared to the work we have to do here. It's a confident statement of sure salvation, but Heaven is only the destination, it's not the reason we are here. Like Paul said that he gloried that God was with him all the way doing His work, but to be absent from the body is to be with Him. We have a short window to destroy the works of Satan, that will be our legacy of Him working through us.
     
    #109 plain_n_simple, Mar 4, 2012
  10. seekingthetruth

    seekingthetruth New Member

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    Jesus will destroy Satan in due time.

    John
     
    #110 seekingthetruth, Mar 4, 2012
  11. robertguwapito

    robertguwapito New Member

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    Dear plain n simple,

    Your posts seem to border on the strange and creepy. Reminds me of the hyper-faith theology of Pentecostals. Do you, happen to, subscribe to some Pentecostal beliefs or theology? That's because your avatar is that of a famous Pentecostal: Smith Wigglesworth. :eek:
     
    #111 robertguwapito, Mar 4, 2012
  12. seekingthetruth

    seekingthetruth New Member

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    Why do some Christians believe that guns are evil?

    Do you think that just maybe, that God intends for Christians to use guns as a tool and not a weapon, and defend ourselves and our families against evil?

    Or do you think that God would just have us lay down and surrender to evil, and just let the bad guys kill us and our families?

    Guns are not evil.....some of the people that use them are.

    John
     
    #112 seekingthetruth, Mar 4, 2012
  13. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple Active Member

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    Pentecostal? Baptist? Methodist? I pay little attetion to creeds and doctrines, I read my bible and am taught by the Holy Ghost. My avatar is of Smith, but he separated himself from denominations yet preached at most any church regardless. I read him because he did miracles and believed the bible, not manmade creeds or traditions.

    My beliefs come straight from the bible. They stand alone. They may parallel Pentecostal, Methodist, Baptist, Church of God, or whatever, makes no difference to me. I prefer Baptist because they are the only ones who seem to stick with the bible alone. Pentecostals as a denomination have strayed far.

    Maybe I'm strange and creepy because I believe in the supernatural actions of Jesus Christ working through a true believer. Jesus the same yesterday, today, and forever amen.
     
    #113 plain_n_simple, Mar 4, 2012
  14. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple Active Member

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    I do not think God will have us simply lay down our lives. He wants us to destroy the works of Satan.

    Someon breaking into your house to rob, rape, or kill is the work of Satan. How do we fight? Casting out devils,healing the sick, preaching the Gospel.
    These things have never changed and work in every situation.
     
    #114 plain_n_simple, Mar 4, 2012
  15. seekingthetruth

    seekingthetruth New Member

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    If someone breaks into my house and threatens my family, i dont have time to cast out their demons.

    John
     
    #115 seekingthetruth, Mar 4, 2012
  16. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple Active Member

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    If someone breaks into my house and threatens my family, i dont have time to cast out their demons.

    How long did it take for you to cast them out the last time?
     
    #116 plain_n_simple, Mar 4, 2012
  17. seekingthetruth

    seekingthetruth New Member

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    Actually I was preaching at the local gospel mission a few years ago, and a man sitting on the front row scrunched up his face, and with a sinister voice said "We don't believe that"

    I dont know who "we" were but i can guess. I am sorry to say that i got scared and didnt try to help him. I was terrified. I am convinced that this was my first and only (that I know of) encounter with a demon possesed person.

    No, Plain, I am no Exorcist. But I am a pretty good shot with a rifle!!!!!

    John
     
    #117 seekingthetruth, Mar 4, 2012
  18. robertguwapito

    robertguwapito New Member

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    Aha, as I suspected, a dedicated follower of famous Pentecostal, the Rev. Smith Wigglesworth! That's why your postings are creepy and strange.

    www.deceptioninthechurch.com says about Wigglesworth, "Wigglesworth preached constantly on the power of faith, but he failed to balance his teaching with the absolute necessity of submitting one's faith to the sovereign will of God. He failed to distinguish properly between this present life and the resurrection life which is to come (Romans 8:18- 25). Instead he taught: "Jesus would have us come forth in divine likeness, in resurrection force, in the power of the Spirit, to walk in faith and understand his Word, what he meant when he said he would give us power over all the power of the enemy. Christ will subdue all things till everything comes into perfect harmony with his will" (Wigglesworth, "The Substance of Things Hoped For," Pentecostal Evangel, Oct. 25, 1924). This is a destructive doctrinal error which causes people to be confused about what they can and cannot expect from God in this present time. Such false teaching produces great confusion and results in the overthrowing of the faith of great numbers of people who, having tried to exercise the faith spoken of by the Pentecostal preacher and having failed to achieve the desired miracle, give up in great despair. Faith is trusting God and His Word NO MATTER WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES, whether He does miracles or whether He does not do miracles. Faith is waiting on God to bring His promises to pass, regardless of what I am experiencing in this present life. Hebrews 11 reminds us that there are two kinds of faith: that which overcomes difficulties (Heb. 11:32- 35a) and that which endures difficulties (Heb. 11:35b-40)."

    Your beliefs come from the bible as "filtered" by Smith Wigglesworth's theology. :eek:
     
    #118 robertguwapito, Mar 4, 2012
  19. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple Active Member

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    I dont know who "we" were but i can guess. I am sorry to say that i got scared and didnt try to help him. I was terrified. I am convinced that this was my first and only (that I know of) encounter with a demon possesed person.

    You know exactly who the "we" were. There's nothing wrong with being terrified with a first encounter, but remember you have someone inside you who is bigger. Next time those demons will be terrified of the Jesus in you.

    No, Plain, I am no Exorcist. But I am a pretty good shot with a rifle!!!!!

    I don't know about the word exorcist.
    I know we can do the works Jesus did.
    If you shot that man, he would of died and who knows where he'd be. If you cast the demons out, I'll bet he would of got saved and about twenty others witnessing the "exorcism".
    I'm glad Jesus cast out the demons in that man that was bound by chains instead of killing him with a sword. They chained him because he was a danger to others too, just like the guy that breaks into your house.
     
    #119 plain_n_simple, Mar 4, 2012
  20. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple Active Member

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    I read him because I heard he did miracles. My beliefs stand on the bible alone, I can prove that. Would a avatar of Calvin be better for you?
    I follow Jesus Christ, not a dead preacher lol.
    And whom may I ask your bible is filtered through? Calvin? Spurgeon?
     
    #120 plain_n_simple, Mar 4, 2012
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