Is it wrong to learn Greek?

You can see into heaven, can you? Describe it for us. </font>[/QUOTE]Sure! By the eyes of faith and by my worship. Also:
Revelation 4:3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
Revelation 4:4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
Revelation 4:6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.
Revelation 5:11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
Revelation 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God

Does that help you any?

Do you need the Greek?

Revelation 4:3 kai o kayhmenov hn omoiov orasei liyw iaspidi kai sardinw kai iriv kukloyen tou yronou omoiov orasei smaragdinw
Revelation 4:4 kai kukloyen tou yronou yronoi eikosi kai tessarev kai epi touv yronouv eidon touv eikosi kai tessarav presbuterouv kayhmenouv peribeblhmenouv en imatioiv leukoiv kai escon epi tav kefalav autwn stefanouv crusouv
Revelation 4:6 kai enwpion tou yronou yalassa ualinh omoia krustallw kai en mesw tou yronou kai kuklw tou yronou tessara zwa gemonta ofyalmwn emprosyen kai opisyen
Revelation 5:11 kai eidon kai hkousa fwnhn aggelwn pollwn kukloyen tou yronou kai twn zwwn kai twn presbuterwn kai ciliadev ciliadwn
Revelation 7:11 kai pantev oi aggeloi esthkesan kuklw tou yronou kai twn presbuterwn kai twn tessarwn zwwn kai epeson enwpion tou yronou epi proswpon autwn kai prosekunhsan tw yew

 

Skandelon,

Why do you make this statement?

That is untrue.

Kim

 

YES or NO --&gt; Do you see what you just described with your own eyes?

 

Skandelon,

My apologies. I misunderstand your original question. I'm still learning the terminologies.

Kim

 

The belief that the KJ translation of the Bible is more accurate than the original from which it was translated requires the belief that the KJ translation was more inspired than the original, and that the translators had knowledge of the Word of God over and beyond the knowledge of the Word of God that Paul had. If this is true, Paul’s Epistle to the Romans in the Greek New Testament is an imperfect document written by Paul with only a limited amount of inspiration; whereas the Epistle to the Romans in the KJ translation of the Bible is a perfect document written partially by Paul and partially by the “translators” of the KJV with the help of the Holy Spirit to correct Paul’s mistakes.

There is no more evidence for this than there if evidence for the genuineness of the Book of Mormon. Mormons believe what they want to believe in spite of the evidence. Members of the KJO sect also believe what they want to believe in spite of the evidence. If it were not for such a mind set as this, there would be no such thing as pseudo-Christian cults and Christian (?) sects.

 

It's much like trying to tell a person who has never been to college what it is like to graduate and all the things you learned.

Sometime look up in Hebrew the word for disciple. You might start with Is. 50:4. You will be amazed that when you investigate what it means you will come closer to one.

 

"Any more idiots out there?"
Raises hand...
Just in a completely different way bro Timo.

 

Duplicate post

 

There are many instances where the KJV has a superb English translation of the Greek text; however, there are also instances where the KJV has a poor English translation of the Greek text (e.g., Mk. 1:10, where the forceful Greek word used to describe the heavens being "torn open" at Jesus' baptism is robbed of its forcefulness by the KJV's anemic translation). The Greek text is the standard against which *all* English translations must be compared. That's the major reason why serious students of the NT learn Greek. </font>[/QUOTE]You mean that Harmless Dove ripped the Portals of Glory apart when He descended to show His Approval of His Co-equal Existence in the Person of Jesus Christ? No. I would just expect that the Heavens "opening" is more than just a normal event, I'd rather believe it was certainly Glorious, not violent as "torn open" would indicate, but hey? What do I know? I'm just a plumb ol'dumber. </font>[/QUOTE]The Greek participle used in Mk. 1:10 to describe the opening of the heavens is σχιζομενους, from σχιζω, a stong verb which carries the sense of something being forcefully divided into two. It's the same verb used in Mk. 15:38 to describe the tearing of the Temple veil at the moment of Jesus' death. These two occasions -- once at the beginning, once at the end -- are the only times in Mark's Gospel where the verb σχιζω is used, and they "bracket" the Gospel to show how Jesus Christ our Mediator tears away all barriers and grants us access to God. Mark 1:10 is also the fulfillment of the ancient prophecy in Isa. 64:1, "Oh that you would rend the heavens and come down..." Some English Bible translations (like the Geneva Bible) correctly render the forceful nature of the Greek participle, while others (like the KJV) completely miss it and have a poor translation. The "final authority" for *all* English *translations* is the original language Greek text.

 

YES or NO --&gt; Do you see what you just described with your own eyes? </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, and no. By faith I can see it afar,... in the sweet by and by, but for the now and now, all I can see with the natural, no, only what anybody else can see. You know that and are running off down the "rabbit hole" with some of your other cohorts.

 

It would seem to me that you are being obtuse. What is your point? Your reply is a nonsequiturial.

My point is that Koine Greek was the lanuage originally used in the writting of the NT. While English translations of the NT (I only use the AV1611 and don't skip around looking at others)and English NT dictionaries (three cheers for Brother Vines) are useful. For exegetical preaching, a preacher must gain (or develop over the years) a working knowledge of Koine Greek. How deep would you expect a teacher of U.S. History to get with out the knowledge of English needed to read the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution? </font>[/QUOTE]You seem to think I am against learning Greek, but that is not true. I am more interested in reaching the average man who thinks Greek is "Greek" to him, not "wow" and tickle the ears of the brethren in how deep my studies have gone or the heights, yall say "depths" my aspirations will carry me.

Maybe you hit on something though, we do have more preachers giving history lessons and building a fellowship of history buffs and Greek "scholars", but side-stepping and brushing to the side the average man all the while.

We visited a church for a few months in our quest to determine God's will for us. That church had the Truth, a good number of congregants. We had a fine preacher by the name of Bro. Wyndvein as interim pastor.

He related much to the Greek in his messages, but he had more than just truth and history, the man has a touch of God; unction, annointing, the Spirit it is called.

I never have found what you said as a mandate of scripture anywhere in any of the pastoral epistles that a preacher must get a working knowledge of the Koine Greek, your being suppositional, not entirely accurate.

I apologize that my remark went by you so speedily, but I believe you did get my point, or else you wouldn't have reacted the way you did.

 

That is so extreme KJVO#5 (AV1611 is the inspired authority, not the Greek) that I am speechless. </font>[/QUOTE]Is that what studying Greek does to a man? I'm really surprised to see you react like that. There are numerous Greek MSS that I am certain you would not endorse as authoritive over the English due to their errors.

Analytical aren't we? Be careful your analysis doesn't run away with you.

You know what I meant and are running down the "sippy hole" with that one.

 

Equating a college degree with what even the simple man undersdtands is silly.

If you care to discuss experience compared to a degree, I'm game, but you will alternately have to allow me to use the same study methods available. You want to turn this debate into a match of wits. I too can play that game: A man with a 10th grade education explaining the use of algebra to a highschool graduate that can hardly read, is like the plumber telling the architech that his drawing is against the building code, all the while it actually is, but the architech's intelligence is replaced by the pride of his education.

GB, you boast your education. The Greeks were guilty of same. A typical response.

 

You've read the Original to arrive at this conclusion?

So by what you just introdueced as logic, will that also say that because we no longer have the Originals due to the mv advocates as well? I for one don't believe in KJVO, how can I? There are many other MSS and earlier Bibles that were just as accurate and pure. I guess I need to introduce another label: HBO.

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Holy Bible Onlyism

 

Which ones? I'd be interested in knowing because *none* of the thousands of Greek or versional MSS we have today agrees completely with the KJV.

 

And we don't have all the Greek MSS either do we? You forgot to add that to your statement though your effort did seem justified by it's means.

Now we are left with no other alternative but to introduce another label:

POGMO

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Plethora OF Greek MSS Onlyism

 

If I am learning anything, I want to learn it from someone who has the educational background to teach it well, teach it correctly, and teach it fully. There is a big difference in those who are fluent in the Greek and those who would rather remain ignorant of it. I, for one, would prefer to learn about God by those who can understand the Greek, just as I would want to read a translation that was translated by people who understood the Greek.

I am thankful that I had the opportunity to learn the language, and I am able to use it to help students understand God's Word. I am also thankful that I do not believe that any translation would somehow "trump" the original inspired Word of God.