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Is Mel Gibson insane?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by vaspers, Feb 18, 2004.

  1. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam New Member

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    "Where does it say in the Bible we are to re-enact this episode and focus on it?"

    Where does it say we need pews in churches?
     
  2. vaspers

    vaspers New Member

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    Brother Adam, I'm beginning to really like you a lot. I mean you are a worthy debate opponent and I respect your thinking greatly.

    You're correct about pews, and my pastor actually said the churches have made a huge mistake by having pews in the church.

    Now watch them call us "legalistic," or "fundamental" or "charismatic" because we know it's sinful to have pews in a church because they prevent good stewardship of the property.

    Now you say "Sin? How so?" I'm being slightly silly here, but seriously, my pastor said: "Huge mistake!" Why? Because if we had MOVEABLE seats, folding chairs, or benches on wheels, or something, you could roll or remove them and the sanctuary could be Multi-Purpose facility.

    Now we have to spend parishoners money (the Lord's I mean) to build a big gym for multi-purposes. This is a waste of God's money but they seem to think we have no choice but to build, tho I think it may be a less honorable reason to make church "bigger" but who am I to judge?
     
  3. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    Adam, you study Catholicism and attend mass. Can you tell me what the veil of Veronica is?

    Diane
     
  4. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam New Member

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    Sure Diane,

    I had to do a little research on it myself since I had only heard it mentioned in passing while discussing relics with faithful Catholics.

    It's basically said that there was a woman named Veronica who was watching as Jesus was on the path to Calvary who used a clothe to wipe his face. This became a relic in which it is said that like the woman who received healing through faith by touching Christ's cloak, someone may also be healed by faith through this clothe.

    Catholics are taught that anything like this (similar to sightings of the Fatima) are always to be received with skepticism. Often times they turn out to be frauds.

    Bro. Adam
     
  5. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam New Member

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    I also wanted to add, that when thinking about the term "relic" it would be right to think about it in terms of a watch your grandfather gave you that you hand down from generation to generation. It holds a special meaning to you, but has no "magical powers". You may carry it with you to a job interview to give you confidence. If you got the job, it wasn't due to any "magic" in the watch though.
     
  6. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    Thanks Adam. There is a woman, in the movie, on the path to Calvary who wipes the blood and sweat from the face of Christ. It leaves the imprint of his face on the cloth. No words were said but one of our ministers told me it was known to Catholics as the Veil of Veronica.

    Diane
     
  7. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Diane and Bro Adam, I just thought I'd throw in my $.02. The name "veronica", attributed to the woman, is not her name. "Veronica" means "image that is true". By wiping the face of Jesus in an act of chatiry, we get to look into Jesus' face, which prior to that, is obscured by the blood and effects from his suffering.

    There is a relic that exists today, dating back some 1100 years, that is said to have had the image of Christ's face on it. Though the cloth is still preserved, the image was on it is no longer visible, lost to the march of time.

    Some have thought that, if Veronica was a rel person, and not a conglomeration of several people, she might have been the hemmoraging woman healed by Christ. This is one of those extrabiblical representations that, like the idea of Jesus stumbling of falling as he carries the cross, isn't biblically mentioned. But, as sure as Jesus would have stumbled, there would have people on the way, some who would have ridiculed him, and some who would have aided him.
     
  8. onestand

    onestand New Member

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    Yes, I do intend to take my 7 year old son to watch this movie, just because it's R rated doesn't really mean much, and it's most likely due to the violent content. I have no convictions against this idea, I believe it will help greatly increase his love and understanding for what Jesus did for him.

    Joan
     
  9. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    I think 7 is a bit young. I have a 7yo son, and he's not ready to see this. My two older ones (13 and 16) will definitely be seeing it. Perhaps when my son is 9, he'll be more able to understand it. You, otoh, would know your son better than I would.
     
  10. onestand

    onestand New Member

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    Vaspers, Even though I'm sure Mel probably didn't make this movie with the intention of others coming to Christ, it was something he was just inspired to do. Fact is, even non believers are not going to be watching this movie with the intent to pick apart every detail to make sure it's biblically correct. The idea is to show what Jesus went thru, and according from some of the christians I've heard from who have seen this flick, it's very accurate. But even if it's not completely accurate, I think it would be awesome to view, we know what happened so truth is in us.

    Joan
     
  11. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24 Active Member

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    Unfortunately, The Passion is not showing anywhere near me tomorrow night, but it will be here eventually.

    My daughter who lives in Wisconsin, however, is viewing it tomorrow night with her church. Now, I will have a first hand account from someone I know personally.

    I have read various reports from well-known Christians, and non-Christians alike, that have seen it and they do not have anything but glowing reports to give.

    They do, however, because of the violence, suggest NOT taking anyone under the age of 13 to see it.
     
  12. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    I feel the same way. My oldest two children are 10 and 8, and I will wait a few years before letting them see this film. 7 is too young in my opinion.
     
  13. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam New Member

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    Thank you Johnv. My research was from a fairly reliable Catholic site, though not anything official.

    You learn more everyday!
     
  14. onestand

    onestand New Member

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    Obviously each parent must discern for their child to see it or not, but I feel that the violent content in the movie shouldn't be a factor in excluding young viewers. I wonder how many children actually witnessed Jesus's death that day on the cross.

    Joan
     
  15. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    Now! Here's what gets me about Gibson and what folks are saying about him!! Follow the time line with me

    Starting with Mad Max---I've seen all of 'um! Wish I could "soup up" a motorcycle like those and ride till my tongue drags the ground!!

    But I know it probably "Wasn't as it is!"

    Then it moved to the Letal Weapon series---I've seen all those, too! If I were to rescue someone who was about to jump from a tall building---I would want to do it like Riggs!!! Daredevilish! Handcuff myself to the jumper and we both go at the count of three!!!

    But I know it probably "Wasn't as it is!"

    Then it moves on to the Sexy Man series---well, that rules this fat tub of lard out---but I can wish, can't I???

    It still "Isn't as it is!"

    Then the Patriot and those other shows---wish I were there again!!

    Probably "Wasn't as it was!"

    The last movie I saw staring Gibson was his "We Were Soldiers Once"---Vietnam era Lt. Colonial----mixing with the "non-coms"---Again, if that were me---I would mix with the Private's too!! Its not below me to grab my M-16 and lay in a ditch next to a Corporal or a Sergeant and fire off a few clips!!! Then when the battle is over and I survive---I go back to the Outpost and change my messy pants!!!! Good movie!

    But I know it "Wasn't as it is!"

    Then he makes the Passion!----suddenly---from the lips of the Pope---its the first movie that "Is as it was!" Now, how does the Pope know???

    I'm not gonna deny that Gibson is a good script writer and producer----but we need to draw a line between the truth of the movie and the truth of the Word of God we call Scripture! I have a strange sneaky feeling that if you stood the movie up next to the truth of the Scripture you hold in your hand----see them as two seperate objects being held next to each other---line upon line, precept upon precept---which object will bend like a pretzel in front of the other???
     
  16. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam New Member

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    I haven't seen an official document from Rome yet stating that the Pope said anything of the such, only rumors. Can you provide a link to something official blackbird? Or are you spreading gossip?
     
  17. BrianT

    BrianT New Member

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    I agree. Who here is saying "The movie = scripture"?

    I hope *everyone* does this - the more people get into the word, the better. I hope the movie makes people want to check things out further, and they pick up the Bible or talk to someone who can open a Bible with them. [​IMG]
     
  18. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia Guest

    Matt 27:28 And they stripped Him and put a scarlet robe on Him. 29 When they had twisted a crown of thorns, they put it on His head, and a reed in His right hand. And they bowed the knee before Him and mocked Him, saying, "Hail, King of the Jews!" 30 Then they spat on Him, and took the reed and struck Him on the head. 31 And when they had mocked Him, they took the robe off Him, put His own clothes on Him, and led Him away to be crucified. 32 Now as they came out, they found a man of Cyrene, Simon by name. Him they compelled to bear His cross.

    Johnv, I think this is where the thought comes from that Jesus stumbled under the weight.

    Joan, I really would NOT advise you taking a 7 year old to see this. My 9 year old could not handle this. 14 and older has been the advised age. Several times I covered my eyes or ears. Grown men were sobbing aloud. One man left.

    Diane
     
  19. Mike McK

    Mike McK New Member

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    Diane, this is incorporated into the "Stations of the Cross". Check out Station # 6 somtime. That might give you a little insight into that.

    I'm not Catholic (obviously) but I find the Stations of the Cross to be a beautiful and fascinating thing. A holdover from my Catholic school upbringing, I guess.
     
  20. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Blackbird, the Vatican has emphatically denied the pope endorsed the film.

    CNN STORY

    Which has caused great consternation in the Gibson camp, which insists it had written authorization to use the "quote."

    NEW YORK DAILY NEWS

    An interesting take on the spin battle from an independent Catholic newspaper:

    FLAP UNFLATTERING TO EVERYONE INVOLVED
     
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