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Featured Is salvation available?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jan 16, 2022.

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  1. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Decide beforehand. In other words, it has nothing to do with our choice. It was already decided.
     
    #41 Reformed1689, Jan 17, 2022
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  2. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    That is a temporal paradox ... when an event happens in the future (I repent) it triggers an event in the past (I am destined to repent and be saved). That is contrary to the definition of the word "pre-destined" and would be more accurately described as "retroactively-destined".

    I do not believe that such a teaching can be supported by scripture in general or the meaning of "predestined".

    There are names which "are in" the Book of Life and names that "are not written" in the Book of Life and warnings about names being "blotted out" of the Book of Life, but I am unaware of anything that suggests names being daily added to the Book of Life (as new souls repent).

    Your heterodox teaching seems to lack Biblical support, but it is for you to "prove" your teaching. I suggest a new topic to lay it out clearly from scripture how the present is constantly changing eternity past.
     
    #42 atpollard, Jan 17, 2022
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  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Indeed God has decided beforehand that those who are saved should live holy and blameless lives
     
    #43 SavedByGrace, Jan 17, 2022
  4. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Again ignoring verse five. Your interpretation is absurd.
     
    #44 Reformed1689, Jan 17, 2022
  5. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I will answer more when I get back home as I am on my mobile
     
    #45 SavedByGrace, Jan 17, 2022
  6. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Explain it to me
     
    #46 SavedByGrace, Jan 17, 2022
  7. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will
    The Holy Bible: English Standard Version (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles, 2016), Eph 1:5.
     
    #47 Reformed1689, Jan 17, 2022
  8. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Verse 4 says

    even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
    Ephesians 1: 4

    Which is post conversion
     
    #48 SavedByGrace, Jan 17, 2022
  9. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    That is NOT what Ephesians SAYS.
    Nowhere does it say "predestined to live" (anything).
    We were predestined to a state of being ...
    • be holy and without blame
    • adoption as sons
    • accepted
    • alive
    • saved
    • His workmanship
    ... and it is BECAUSE of this state of being that we are "created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them".
     
    #49 atpollard, Jan 17, 2022
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  10. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Only the second half is post. You still ignore verse five. Why? I think it is because you know it destroys your ridiculous argument.
     
    #50 Reformed1689, Jan 17, 2022
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  11. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    The doctrine of salvation is not based on one passage from the Bible. There are many to be considered
     
    #51 SavedByGrace, Jan 17, 2022
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    As I have already said the doctrine of salvation is not found in one passage in the Bible
     
    #52 SavedByGrace, Jan 17, 2022
  13. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    You add to Scripture in those too I bet.
     
    #53 Reformed1689, Jan 17, 2022
  14. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    And again, you avoid verse five. Why does that verse scare you so much?
     
    #54 Reformed1689, Jan 17, 2022
  15. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    I agree, but also none to be ignored.
    (A trait all sides tend to be guilty of ... the famous "Yes, but..." of all conversations). ;)
     
    #55 atpollard, Jan 17, 2022
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  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Verse 5 follows verse 4. Which says that those who are saved are meant to live godly for the Lord. Very simple
     
    #56 SavedByGrace, Jan 17, 2022
  17. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    As I have said many times before on BB John 3.16-18 destroys the reformed teaching from ephesians 1
     
    #57 SavedByGrace, Jan 17, 2022
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Do not get sidetracked by dozens of subject change posts, here is the unanswered question:

    Do the lost, living today, have an opportunity for salvation, or is the outcome of their life a foregone conclusion?

    Calvinist doctrine says "a foregone conclusion" but scripture says the opportunity for salvation is the good news for the lost.

    Two very different gospels...
     
    #58 Van, Jan 17, 2022
  19. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. And John 3:16 means exactly what it says.
     
    #59 DaveXR650, Jan 17, 2022
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Your answer is biblical, but not Calvinist doctrine.

    Calvinism = You were saved or damned from all eternity for all eternity and there is nothing you can do to alter that outcome of your life or for the lives of your loved ones. The gospel is good news for some and bad news for the rest...
     
    #60 Van, Jan 17, 2022
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