is Satan Able To Blind Sinners To the Gospel?

I agree that Satan nor any created being can stop God from doing something He chooses to do.

However, I am wondering if you happen to note that in that very passage it says specifically He opens their eye TO TURN THEM FROM.. they are not regenerate yet (as the Reformed view defines it), they have been allowed to see what they had not previously been able to. Their eyes are opened WHILE STILL IN darkness and still under that power of Satan so they could TURN to the light, to and toward the Son, FOR the forgiveness of sins and receive the inheritance - by faith. Thus sanctification, justification and coming out from darkness and under Satan's power and therefore into the ligh and unity with God - all transpire by faith.

Just curious if you noticed this.

 

Interesting. If we are dead in sin, to borrow an oft-used phrase by Calivinists, "how can a dead man be blinded?"

 

While that is quite true, it seems scripture states that in addition to that, Satan Does-In-Fact blind men from the gospel who have already rejected it. At least that is what the text implies regarding the rejection aspect.

 

:thumbsup: Well stated.

 

Certainly noticed your eisegesis. Have you ever noticed 2 Timothy 2:25-26?

In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. 2 Tim. 2:25-26

 

All truth is from God, and all falsehood is from Satan. Satan blinds rebellious men by telling them what they want to hear. In time a man's mind can become so deceived he cannot recover himself from falsehood.

2 Tim 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Here Paul describes Satan like a hunter who takes an animal in a snare. How does a hunter cause an animal to enter or step on his trap? He uses bait. He uses some means that appeals to the man. There might be a man who is happily married, but works with a very attractive lady. This can be the bait. Satan tells him it is harmless to flirt, to kid around. One day he tells the man it is ok to have lunch with her, or meet her after work, nothing will happen. But things do happen and Satan has captured another man.

If a man does not want to believe in God, Satan will provide many teachers to convince him in his way. Their lies will seem so logical, so scientific that the man becomes utterly deceived.

The Word of God is the only hope, if a man hears it he will be told the truth.

 

Hello savedbymercy and welcome to the BB

You said...........

Well, here it is........
2 Peter 2:1-2
V.1 ¶ But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
V.2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.

As you put it...“Christ or God may have bought something...”: There is no “may” here.
The scripture says.....“even denying the Lord that bought them”.

Jesus is who they were denying, and the only thing that Jesus “bought” and paid for, was humanity; Paying with His blood.

Now, the reason that I felt the need to use this verse to point out that Jesus died for everyone, is because Calvinism wants to limit the Lord’s atonement to those who accept Him: While this passage clearly says that these men were “denying Him”.
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You continued with..........

Here is that verse in context........
Deuteronomy 32:4-6
V.4 [He is] the Rock, his work [is] perfect: for all his ways [are] judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right [is] he.
V.5 They have corrupted themselves, their spot [is] not [the spot] of his children: [they are] a perverse and crooked generation.
V.6 Do ye thus requite the LORD, O foolish people and unwise? [is] not he thy father [that] hath bought thee? hath he not made thee, and established thee?

Isn’t God’s Word beautiful!

Here God is telling His people that even though they were a “perverse and crooked generation”, that He had bought them.

You Calvinists like to spout that your great champions of “Grace”, while at the same time undercutting God’s greatest expression of Grace(unmerited favor), by limiting His atonement.
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Next you said.......

Here you are building a straw man, by trying to apply John 17:2, to 2Peter 2:1

John 17:2, is not talking about atonement or redemption at all:
It’s talking about the Lord’s protection of His people..........
John 17:2
“As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.”

This “power” that Jesus had been given over all flesh, is power to protect his elect, from the wicked world’s attempt to prevent them from being saved.

Have you ever wondered why, this wicked Christ rejecting world, hasn’t totally done away with Christianity long ago(by simply killing every Christian & burning every Bible):
The answer is, because Christ has power over all flesh, to prevent wicked men from being able to do this.
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Next you apply the “straw man”, that you built, by saying..........

Here you wrongly apply the “power over all flesh” in John 17:2, to 2Peter 2:1, because you somehow need to explain away the fact that “everybody has been bought”!

The word “bought” in 2 Peter 2:1, does not mean “have power over”: It means “bought”
59 agorazw agorazo ag-or-ad’-zo from 58; TDNT-1:124,19; v
AV-buy 28, redeem 3; 31
1) to be in the market place, to attend it {#Mt 13:44,46 21:12 Mr 11:15 Lu 19:45}
2) to do business there, buy or sell {#Mt 14:15}
3) of idle people: to haunt the market place, lounge there
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Finally you said.......

I don’t have to. This passage speaks for itself!

 

LOL.. If you had studied those two scriptures out you would KNOW it is 'you' who has eisegeted the scripture to think they even remotely contradict each other.

The passage I quoted does not state 'when' God chooses to do this, only that He does do it. The passage you quote speaks to the simple fact of God calling to them. One large mistake you have made is that the word 'giving' means God has to implant it, when in fact it means simply to 'allow' them to repent.

 

I have no idea how this even remotely ties in to what I said.. however it should be noted that though man can and sometimes will be deceived (that was not my point) he reason for being deceived to the point of no return (your 'utterly') is because -God- has turned them over to their own desire and -He- will send them a strong delusion "to believe the lie". They have chosen it but He will seal them in that choice. Scripture doesn't tell us how long God will move upon them, only that there does come a time where He will no longer do so. That is not our concern though.. ours it to continue in the hopes He IS still moving positively in their lives.

 

No, the Scriptures don't contradict each other. The Timothy passage refutes your eisegesis.

 

Yeah, sure..OKAY! :laugh:

 

The scales that fell from Paul's eyes were these scales of physical blindness or spiritual blindness or both with the physical being but a picture or shadow of the spiritual?

Now when Paul received his sight?to above was it because he all of a sudden saw the error of his way and he now has faith in Christ as his Lord or is it because of the faith of Christ, Paul is given enough Spirit to ask, "Lord, what wilt thou have me to do?" based upon this verse, "no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit."

Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.

But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

Was Paul like Cornelius filled with the Holy Spirit before he was baptized?
Was he filled with the Holy Spirit when the scales fell from his eyes and then was baptized?

Was this because some new found faith of his?

 

allen

Yes, Christ turns them. Thats Christ doing, He causes the return or bringing to God 1 Pet 2:

24Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

25For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

The word returned here is the greek word epistrephō and means:


) transitively

a) to turn to

1) to the worship of the true God

b) to cause to return, to bring back

1) to the love and obedience of God

2) to the love for the children

3) to love wisdom and righteousness

It is being caused to return or causing one to turn

Its also aorist passive indicative. The passive voice means the subects are being acted upon, they are being returned by the healing of the stripes in vs 24

The healing is what opened their eyes.. Jesus mission was to Isa 42:

6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

So Paul was being used by Christ to open their eyes and to turn them to God..Christ is to credited for that, because of His stripes..

 

stilll:

I responded already see post 16

 

Uhh.. You missed the point completely.

They were slaves, still in bondage, therefore NOT regenerate when Christ opened their eyes to Turn them FROM darkness and the power of Satan (their current state of being) to God for forgiveness, ect. (their state of being AFTER they turn -regenerate)

 

allen:

No they werent, they were slaves before Christ turned them and opened their eyes, and the opening of their eyes is where their Faith comes from.. The receive the eyes of Faith..

 

Go back and re-read the scripture again.. it SPECIFICALLY states just what I said. He opened their eyes to turn them FROM darkness..
So their eyes were opened.. and were does scripture state they were spiritually with opened eyes - in darkness - that is why they 'needed' to turn from it .. and be forgiven. If they were not IN darkness they have no need to turn FROM it TO God.

Check your Greek bud.
Another that is much stronger regarding this is:

They were 'slaves' WHEN they were called. They were not called after they were set free but literally - while they were slaves, He called them.

Their spiritual state is undeniable IF one will hold to the scripture, and more so if one understands the Greek. And while you don't NEED to understand the Greek, it brings it across to a greater degree

 

allan:

I already read. You do not seem to understand what Christ death has accomplished for His Sheep..

 

So you wont actually engage the text then.. that is fine.. I guess

 

I already have, but you do not appear to understand it.