Is Seminary Too Expensive?

What I actually said was we have a HUGE denomination pumping money into the seminaries, not that we have a denomination pumping HUGE money into the seminaries. THere is a difference. With the denomination the size of the SBC, even 1 or 2% distributed among the seminaries is significant. Especially in comparison to independent seminaries like DTS. So in this case, a little help goes a long way.

 

I think our SBC seminaries are a pretty good deal, but my concern is the relatively small compensation we are providing for our profs. From what I've discovered, many newly-minted seminary grads go to their pastorates making as much or more than their profs with years of experience, not to mention the sacrifice of acquiring a PhD.

I would like to see our seminary trustees live on what the typical seminary professor makes.

Blessings,
Bill

 

Stefan,

I have looked at the data in the past - I am not going to look at it. You should be able to find the data as quickly as I could. We are in about the 3rd tier investment wise. And we are very near the bottom in cost. Which says positive things for us.

 

Nate

Agreed - my concern was (& is) the large number of people we attract because they feel that we have deep pockets.



If they are only following the money, then they should go PCUSA . . . IMHO

Wayne

 

PS - that is because the Presbyterians endow better than Baptists do.

 

This is a good observation. Of course, the two goals seem mutually exclusive (cheap education and well paid profs.) I know of a prof here at SBTS that for 3 years of doing his PhD he lived in a rent free arangement. As a result, they were able to purchase a house a few years ago. The house next to him just sold for around 230k. Imagine someone trying to get into that market, much less a seminary prof. Not that having a house is a constitutional right, but if that same person went into the pastorate they would have a house somewhat provided (even if just a tax-free "allowance"). That's here in Louisville. Another prof came here from Gordon Conwell in part because he got tried of being a prof and a pastor and writing books just to make ends meet.

 

In comparison, yes...SBC seminaries are a great deal compared to others, and the education you get will be top notch.
But, at the same time...i do think they are getting out of reach. While i was at SBTS i saw tuition rise 5% nearly every year; while the average cost of living increase for a full time job was only 3%. Add to that the yearly increase on housing and other fees (and sometimes the increases came each semester); it made it very difficult for me to find the money to attend some semesters.
Part of the reason i took 8 1/2 years to get my M.Div. was due to the fact that when it came down to paying for food, rent (through the seminary) or tuition...classes did have to take the back burner. Unfortunately though, when i did have to take a semester or more off, they hiked up my rent, which made getting tuition money together even tougher.

My personal thought: i hope that SBC seminaries do continue to allow SBC students to get the best possible education anywhere, but i'm not so sure that is going to happen.

 

IMO, tuition is rapidly approaching the point at which "working your way through" may no longer be a viable option. Loans may become the only option, undesirable as they may be.

 

If you consider what starting professors make compared to pastors then it is not expensive enough.

Some students parents have an oil well though.

Somehow many foreign students from poor countries seem to make it though.

 

Well as a non-sbcer, and as someone whoe scared everyone in the other thread about joining for a discount (which as I explained, I would NEVER do), I'm not sure the price non-sbc students pay is subsidized is it? Your right it shouldn't be. BUT, you do want diversity in your schools in the student body, and more students are always better (for money flow, facilities, prestige, etc). You may just "correct" a non-sbc students theology to the truth, making a closer brother and possible SBCer. What you don't want is a small, uninteresting school that has no appeal to those outside SBC (and of course inside as well). Students don't learn by nodding there heads yes to everything the professor says, they'll have no foundation for there faith and theology. Of course, the diversity of thought should come from other students as much as possible, with the seminary and professors proclaiming and holding to a unified theology (inasmuch as needed and can be done of course). These "other" students then, need to be in the school, and need to havea reason to attend. Cost is a big issue, and a big motivator for those outside your tradition. Thus keeping it affordable aids in that. As I mentioned before $300 is still less than some schools I was looking at, like DTS ($320), and GRTS ($370).

 

I don't support subsidizing other denomination's students. But, I recognize the problem this creates - people pretend to be SBC and are not. Then their alliegiance is 'bought' and that is usually a bad allegiance.

But, subsidizing the cost of education for students overall needs to be addressed. And if working on that helps all of the students (including those of other denominations) so be it.

A ball-park estimate shows that the cost of tuition has gone up 10 fold to the economy's 4 fold increase (according to a recent article). No wonder seminary seems costly.

 

Scared is it? I guess you do know an awful lot.

The price of non-sbc students is lowered by the giving of Southern Baptists when it lowers the overall cost of providing the education. I.e., when giving builds a library, classrooms, offices, housing, etc. Beyond that I do not believe that SBC monies subsidize for non-SBC students.

 

Wellllll.

Knowing many pentecostals that believe that we (SBC in particular) waste God's money and consider it an honor to take over churches to fix that problem, I think that it is God's money that He entrusted through SBC Believers.

They should look less for handouts from the SBC and work a little harder. IMHO.

 

I forgot to tell you earlier.. tution at Liberty is now $225 an hour

 

If I'm not mistaken, the requirement for students receiving an education at an SBC seminary with the Cooperative Program scholarship added in to reduce the tuition is that they must be endorsed by a local church and serve at least five years in ministry at a church or agency that either supports or receives support from the Cooperative Program. That means that someone would have to invest anywhere from eight to ten years of their ministry as a member of a Southern Baptist church, which I don't think is too much to ask considering the value of the seminary education they receive.

Cost is relative. Just looking at a fee schedule isn't an indication of either the cost of attending, or how much an individual student will receive in assistance. At Southern Seminary in Louisville, for example, two-thirds of the students are receiving financial aid, which significantly reduces their cost. I've completed a master's degree at the divinity school at Vanderbilt, with a tuition cost of $2,200 per three hour class. I took the classes one at a time, since I am a layperson not preparing for ministry, and paid the full rate, but their divinity program is one of the best endowed in the country, and the financial aid is based on ability to pay, so that most of their students do not have to take out loans to pay for school and many go without having to pay tuition at all, just room, board and fees.

I do think that Baptists and evangelicals are going to have to take a long, hard look at their ministry of education, from the day care level to the graduate schools. If we really believe that a Christian educational foundation is that important to the future of the church, as well as to those who serve in ministry, then we can't continue to depend almost exclusively on tuition from students to fund it.

 

Jack

You got most of it. They must be able to find a church that will claim that the student has been an active member for a year. There is no commitment after graduation.

God bless

Wayne

 

Yes, seminary is too expensive. A recent article claimed that while rent costs have gone up 4 times, tuition costs have gone up 10 times.

 

There must be some stipulations, then, in the receiving of financial aid. When I served on our pastor search committee a couple of years ago, we had a candidate who graduated from Southern, who wanted to make sure we were a cooperating Southern Baptist church, because he didn't want to have to pay back his scholarship.

The SBC seminary picture has changed a lot since some of my friends went off to school after graduating from college in 1989. The enrollments are down from where they were a couple of decades ago, so the schools have introduced new academic programs to get them back up, like Bachelor's level studies and extension programs, and these do not produce the same number of graduates prepared for church vocations or missions with master's degrees that used to be available. That also accounts for the cost increase. My roomate went to Southern in 1989 and paid a matriculation fee of $500 for 12 hours worth of courses and fees. A lot of the new degree programs attract students, but they also cost more money.

The other thing that has changed is that in previous times, the vast majority of Southern Baptist churches pretty much gave the SBC seminaries first shot at their available staff and pastoral positions. That's not the case any more. A Southern Baptist church is as likely to take a student from DTS or Moody as it is from Southeastern or Southern, and in addition to that, you have a dozen schools that are related to groups of SBC congregations or their state conventions that also offer theological education and are geographically closer than one of the six convention schools. So there is now competition for those students as well as the funding that goes with them.

 

Jack

I think that might have been extra scholarship, or maybe they do something different at SOBTS? I know that I didn't sign anything about recieving the SBC matching funds at 2 of the 6 seminaries. And with 1/3 of our graduates that don't go into ministry - I haven't heard anything about someone having to pay that back.

Right - enrollments are declining (not sure about NOBTS) and way down at SWBTS and tuition is way up.

Yep!