Is Seventh-Day Adventism a Cult?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by thatbrian, Feb 8, 2018.

  1. thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    The SDA meets the definition of a cult: Webster’s Dictionary by Random House: cult n. 1. a particular system of religious worship, esp. with reference to its rites and ceremonies. 2. a. a group that devotes itself to or venerates a person, ideal, fad, etc.

    Here are some proofs from the website "Truth or Fables" which is a site founded by a former SDA cult member:

    1. A leader or group of leaders, prophet, prophetess, that claims to speak for God.

    Fulfillment: Ellen G. White (EGW), the Seventh-day Adventist’s prophetess makes the following claims:

    EGW in 1876: "In ancient times God spoke to men by the mouth of prophets and apostles. In these days He speaks to them by the testimonies of His Spirit. There was never a time when God instructed His people more earnestly than He instructs them now concerning His will and the course that He would have them pursue." —Testimonies, vol. 4, pp. 147-148. (1876)

    EGW claims: "that there never was a time when God instructed his people more earnestly" back in 1876 through her testimonies. Was her "testimonies" more earnest than the prophets such as Noah, Jonah, Abraham, Moses, as well as the apostles and even Jesus Christ? Heresy!!! In EGW's mind "his people" back in 1876 are SDA church members and God is giving them inside information through her visions. This is a typical example of religious cultism when people accept false prophets and prophetess writings as from God.

    Bible: Heb 1:1 - 2 (NIV) In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

    We could stop here with the first quote of EGW as she claims to replace Jesus Christ and is now speaking for God. This in itself shows that Adventism is a cult when comparing it with Hebrews 1:1-2.

    God never told his church that Jesus would be replaced by Ellen Gould White or any other prophet or prophetess.

    EGW: "In these letters which I write, in the testimonies I bear, I am presenting to you that which the Lord has presented to me. I do not write one article in the paper expressing merely my own ideas. They are what God has opened before me in vision--the precious rays of light shining from the throne." —Testimonies, vol. 5, p. 67.

    It has been proven that much of what EGW wrote did not come from "the throne of God" but copied from books in her 1200 book library. God's prophets are not liars! See "Desire of Ages: The Veltman report." See Desire of Ages not inspired)



    READ MORE. Is Seventh-day Adventism a cult?

    Robert K. Sanders, Founder and Editor of Truth or Fables, 1997–2012
    Life Assurance Ministries assumed ownership of Truth or Fables in 2012
    © 2016 Life Assurance Ministries. All rights reserved.​
     
  2. BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    You are making Christianity a cult by claiming that it venerates Christ and has a system of religious worship.

    Why keep shooting yourself in the foot??
     
  3. BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    --not my idea for a thread -- but got to "follow the interest" when it comes up. And since this thread is on the same topic as mine .. the same answers will do.

    =================================

    Hoekema's argument against the SDA denomination was totally destroyed by Walter Martin's book "Kingdom of the Cults" where Martin placed the SDA Christian denomination in the appendix giving it a huge amount of space for discussion and totally annihilated Hoekema's shallow arguments addressing Hoekema's book specifically - explicitly.

    Martin was no SDA at all - but he knew a bogus argument when he saw it. Martin pointed out that half the time Hoekema was not even using the SDA published statements of belief for his straw-man arguments!! How sad that anyone could be snookered by Hoekema.



    As Christianity Today pointed out in 2015 - the SDA denomination is the 5th largest Christian denomination in the world and fastest growing (incidentally it is now over 25 million in attendance each Sabbath world wide.)


    Or do you want a thread on "SDA not a Cult according to Walter Martin"??

    -----
     
  4. BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Having post no Bible study at all on the Bible definition of a prophet you appear shocked "to see it".

    How sad.

    Choose the Bible my friend.

    Numbers 12
    and He called Aaron and Miriam. When they had both come forward, 6 He said,
    “Hear now My words:
    If there is a prophet among you,
    I, the Lord, shall make Myself known to him in a vision.
    I shall speak with him in a dream.

    7 “Not so, with My servant Moses,
    He is faithful in all My household;
    8 With him I speak mouth to mouth,
    Even openly, and not in dark sayings,
    And he beholds the form of the Lord.
    Why then were you not afraid
    To speak against My servant, against Moses?”


    By your false accusations against the gift -- you make it appear that it would be sin to speak what God had told you to speak - rather the prophet should (just as you keep doing) make stuff up. And you appear to condemn "not making stuff up".

    Are you even serious??

    No wonder even Walter Martin would not choose the path you appear to have unwittingly selected ... it is too self-conflicted to hold water.
     
  5. thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Looks like you missed this. Here, let me help:

    "It has been proven that much of what EGW wrote did not come from "the throne of God" but copied from books in her 1200 book library. God's prophets are not liars!" See "Desire of Ages: The Veltman report." See Desire of Ages not inspired)
     
  6. BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Having not even read the material you are once again shooting yourself in the foot.

    ================ let's test your theory --

    1. From the "Desire of Ages" the best commentary on the life of Christ - bar none.


      The Desire of the Ages


      Chapter 82

      "Why Weepest Thou?"

      [This chapter is based on Matt. 28:1, 5-8; Mark 16:1-8; Luke 24:1-12; John 20:1-18.]

      The women who had stood by the cross of Christ waited and watched for the hours of the Sabbath to pass. On the first day of the week, very early, they made their way to the tomb, taking with them precious spices to anoint the Saviour's body. They did not think about His rising from the dead. The sun of their hope had set, and night had settled down on their hearts. As they walked, they recounted Christ's works of mercy and His words of comfort. But they remembered not His words, "I will see you again." John 16:22.
      Ignorant of what was even then taking place, they drew near the garden, saying as they went, "Who shall roll us away the stone from the door of the sepulcher?" They knew that they could not remove the stone, yet they kept on their way. And lo, the heavens were suddenly alight with glory that came not from the rising sun. The earth trembled. They saw that the great stone was rolled away. The grave was empty.
      The women had not all come to the tomb from the same direction. Mary Magdalene was the first to reach the place; and upon seeing that the stone was removed, she hurried away to tell the disciples. Meanwhile the other women came up. A light was shining about the tomb, but the body of Jesus was not there. As they lingered about the place, suddenly they saw that they were not alone. A young man clothed in shining garments was sitting by the tomb. It was the angel who had rolled away the stone. He had taken the guise of humanity that he
      Page 789

      might not alarm these friends of Jesus. Yet about him the light of the heavenly glory was still shining, and the women were afraid. They turned to flee, but the angel's words stayed their steps. "Fear not ye," he said; "for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. He is not here: for He is risen, as He said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. And go quickly, and tell His disciples that He is risen from the dead." Again they look into the tomb, and again they hear the wonderful news. Another angel in human form is there, and he says, "Why seek ye the living among the dead? He is not here, but is risen: remember how He spake unto you when He was yet in Galilee, saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again." He is risen, He is risen! The women repeat the words again and again. No need now for the anointing spices. The Saviour is living, and not dead. They remember now that when speaking of His death He said that He would rise again. What a day is this to the world! Quickly the women departed from the sepulcher "with fear and great joy; and did run to bring His disciples word."
      Mary had not heard the good news. She went to Peter and John with the sorrowful message, "They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulcher, and we know not where they have laid Him." The disciples hurried to the tomb, and found it as Mary had said. They saw the shroud and the napkin, but they did not find their Lord. Yet even here was testimony that He had risen. The graveclothes were not thrown heedlessly aside, but carefully folded, each in a place by itself. John "saw, and believed." He did not yet understand the scripture that Christ must rise from the dead; but he now remembered the Saviour's words foretelling His resurrection.
      It was Christ Himself who had placed those graveclothes with such care. When the mighty angel came down to the tomb, he was joined by another, who with his company had been keeping guard over the Lord's body. As the angel from heaven rolled away the stone, the other entered the tomb, and unbound the wrappings from the body of Jesus. But it was the Saviour's hand that folded each, and laid it in its place. In His sight who guides alike the star and the atom, there is nothing unimportant. Order and perfection are seen in all His work.
      Mary had followed John and Peter to the tomb; when they returned to Jerusalem, she remained. As she looked into the empty tomb, grief filled her heart. Looking in, she saw the two angels, one at the head and
      Page 790

      the other at the foot where Jesus had lain. "Woman, why weepest thou?" they asked her. "Because they have taken away my Lord," she answered, "and I know not where they have laid Him." Then she turned away, even from the angels, thinking that she must find someone who could tell her what had been done with the body of Jesus. Another voice addressed her, "Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou?" Through her tear-dimmed eyes, Mary saw the form of a man, and thinking that it was the gardener, she said, "Sir, if thou have borne Him hence, tell me where thou hast laid Him, and I will take Him away." If this rich man's tomb was thought too honorable a burial place for Jesus, she herself would provide a place for Him. There was a grave that Christ's own voice had made vacant, the grave where Lazarus had lain. Might she not there find a burial place for her Lord? She felt that to care for His precious crucified body would be a great consolation to her in her grief.
      But now in His own familiar voice Jesus said to her, "Mary." Now she knew that it was not a stranger who was addressing her, and turning she saw before her the living Christ. In her joy she forgot that He had been crucified. Springing toward Him, as if to embrace His feet, she said, "Rabboni." But Christ raised His hand, saying, Detain Me not; "for I am not yet ascended to My Father: but go to My brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto My Father, and your Father; and to My God, and your God." And Mary went her way to the disciples with the joyful message.
      Jesus refused to receive the homage of His people until He had the assurance that His sacrifice was accepted by the Father. He ascended to the heavenly courts, and from God Himself heard the assurance that His atonement for the sins of men had been ample, that through His blood all might gain eternal life. The Father ratified the covenant made with Christ, that He would receive repentant and obedient men, and would love them even as He loves His Son. Christ was to complete His work, and fulfill His pledge to "make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir." Isa. 13:12. All power in heaven and on earth was given to the Prince of Life, and He returned to His followers in a world of sin, that He might impart to them of His power and glory.
      While the Saviour was in God's presence, receiving gifts for His church, the disciples thought upon His empty tomb, and mourned and wept. The day that was a day of rejoicing to all heaven was to the disciples a day of uncertainty, confusion, and perplexity. Their unbelief
      Page 793



      =============================== result
    Your theory is bogus

    There are distinctive and unique elements in DA that could not have been penned by anyone else.

    So while some common knowledge elements are stated in commentaries and used as summary - the details are so involved you would have to be the Holy Spirit to know them. Or have it told to you by Him.
     
  7. BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    in the testimony of the women gives evidence of how low their faith had sunk. The news of Christ's resurrection was so different from what they had anticipated that they could not believe it. It was too good to be true, they thought. They had heard so much of the doctrines and the so-called scientific theories of the Sadducees that the impression made on their minds in regard to the resurrection was vague. They scarcely knew what the resurrection from the dead could mean. They were unable to take in the great subject. "Go your way," the angels had said to the women, "tell His disciples and Peter that He goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see Him, as He said unto you." These angels had been with Christ as guardian angels throughout His life on earth. They had witnessed His trial and crucifixion. They had heard His words to His disciples. This was shown by their message to the disciples, and should have convinced them of its truth. Such words could have come only from the messengers of their risen Lord.
    "Tell His disciples and Peter," the angels said. Since the death of Christ, Peter had been bowed down with remorse. His shameful denial of the Lord, and the Saviour's look of love and anguish, were ever before him. Of all the disciples he had suffered most bitterly. To him the assurance is given that his repentance is accepted and his sin forgiven. He is mentioned by name.
    "Tell His disciples and Peter that He goeth before you into Galilee: there shall ye see Him." All the disciples had forsaken Jesus, and the call to meet Him again includes them all. He has not cast them off. When Mary Magdalene told them she had seen the Lord, she repeated the call to the meeting in Galilee. And a third time the message was sent to them. After He had ascended to the Father, Jesus appeared to the other women, saying, "All hail. And they came and held Him by the feet, and worshiped Him. Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell My brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see Me."
    Christ's first work on earth after His resurrection was to convince His disciples of His undiminished love and tender regard for them. To give them proof that He was their living Saviour, that He had broken the fetters of the tomb, and could no longer be held by the enemy death; to reveal that He had the same heart of love as when He was with them as their beloved Teacher, He appeared to them again and again. He would draw the bonds of love still closer around them. Go tell My brethren, He said, that they meet Me in Galilee.
    Page 794

    As they heard this appointment, so definitely given, the disciples began to think of Christ's words to them foretelling His resurrection. But even now they did not rejoice. They could not cast off their doubt and perplexity. Even when the women declared that they had seen the Lord, the disciples would not believe. They thought them under an illusion.
    Trouble seemed crowding upon trouble. On the sixth day of the week they had seen their Master die; on the first day of the next week they found themselves deprived of His body, and they were accused of having stolen it away for the sake of deceiving the people. They despaired of ever correcting the false impressions that were gaining ground against them. They feared the enmity of the priests and the wrath of the people. They longed for the presence of Jesus, who had helped them in every perplexity.
    Often they repeated the words, "We trusted that it had been He which should have redeemed Israel." Lonely and sick at heart they remembered His words, "If they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in the dry?" Luke 24:21; 23:31. They met together in the upper chamber, and closed and fastened the doors, knowing that the fate of their beloved Teacher might at any time be theirs.
    And all the time they might have been rejoicing in the knowledge of a risen Saviour. In the garden, Mary had stood weeping, when Jesus was close beside her. Her eyes were so blinded by tears that she did not discern Him. And the hearts of the disciples were so full of grief that they did not believe the angels' message or the words of Christ Himself.
    How many are still doing what these disciples did! How many echo Mary's despairing cry, "They have taken away the Lord, . . . and we know not where they have laid Him"! To how many might the Saviour's words be spoken, "Why weepest thou? whom seekest thou?" He is close beside them, but their tear-blinded eyes do not discern Him. He speaks to them, but they do not understand.
    Oh that the bowed head might be lifted, that the eyes might be opened to behold Him, that the ears might listen to His voice! "Go quickly, and tell His disciples that He is risen." Bid them look not to Joseph's new tomb, that was closed with a great stone, and sealed with the Roman seal. Christ is not there. Look not to the empty sepulcher. Mourn not as those who are hopeless and helpless. Jesus lives, and because He lives, we shall live also. From grateful hearts, from lips touched with holy fire, let the glad song ring out, Christ is risen! He lives to make intercession for us. Grasp this hope, and it will hold the soul like a sure, tried anchor. Believe, and thou shalt see the glory of God.

    =============================== result
    Your theory is bogus

    There are distinctive and unique elements in DA that could not have been penned by anyone else.

    So while some common knowledge elements are stated in commentaries and used as summary - the details are so involved you would have to be the Holy Spirit to know them. Or have it told to you by Him.
     
  8. thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    There are none so blind. . .
     
  9. BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    as those who refuse "to read"??
     
  10. BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Totally failed and false accusation.

    Try to at least be serious
     
  11. Jerome Well-Known Member
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  12. thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    You seem to be very amused, and you "chuckle" quite a bit. Are false prophets and idolatry funny to you, or is something else going on?
     
  13. Jerome Well-Known Member
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  14. thatbrian Well-Known Member
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  15. thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Question Ellen G White and off with your head:

     
  16. BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    There's a thought

    Reminds me of non-debate posts I have seen around here...

     
  17. BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    you don't even accept Walter Martin's total annihilation of your Hoekema leader's hollow accusations
     
  18. delizzle Active Member

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    According to this definition, Christianity is a cult. Christianity is "a particular system of religious worship" with "rites and ceremonies" (baptism, communion, ect.) And it devotes itself to or venerates Jesus Christ. This is interesting because the first century church was regarded as a cult by the mainstream.
     
  19. One Baptism Active Member

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    And all the people, said, "Amen, and Amen."

    Acts 24:14 KJB - But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:​
     
  20. Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    No, those who refuse to heed the sacriptures, and blindly accept false prophets!