Is the Anti KJVO Movement making a difference?

Michelle,

Posting long texts of Scripture and saying "See that proves the KJVO postion" without explaining why they do to a group of people that doesn't see it, doesn't do anything good. Phillip is right; sit down and explain exactly how they do. In other words, present your exegesis of them, or at least, a condensed explanation.

Likewise, you say the writers here have no understanding of gnosticism, but you do. Saying so doesn't make it true, michelle. Please, define the terms "Gnosticism" and "gnostic" for us.

I submit that there is no Scripture that says, there is one definitive English translation in the same way that there is no single Scripture that tells you to attend First Baptist Church of (insert name of town here). That's the ultimate test of the KJVO position. It fails that test.

You always arrive at the same statement, michelle. It ends up with "I feel," or "God has shown me/us, " or "If you only understood, you'd understand." In short, you appeal to a special knowledge that the rest of us don't have. That is, by definition, gnostic faith.

 

Some of your post is just not worthy of answering, but I will remind you, as I have done many, many, many times in the past that it is impossible (I.M.P.O.S.S.I.B.L.E) to translate ANY language to another language and maintain Word for Word.

The Bible says that God will maintain the "Word of God" or even "Words of God". He does NOT promise to have every word the same, in referring to "Words" he is discussing what God has said to pass to His people. The doctrines, the stories, the prophecies, etc.

At the time the KJV was written there were many other English versions (for instance Geneva, Bishop's and many, others) those are STILL available today, and it was the Geneva that the Pilgrams carried to America because our good King James would Not allow anybody to print the King James, but the printers HE authorized--that is the ONLY reason it became to be called the "Authorized Version". It was authorized by King James.

So, as I said, you can read the scriptures all day long and if you are getting something out of it that we aren't, then why don't you share this revelation with us? I asked you to provide commentary to the verses that fit with ours and I will be glad to look at it from your point of view.

Don't just keep coming back saying that we won't read it, or we don't want to understand it. You and I both know that is smoke in a mirror.

 

Don't worry, Gene, you'll understand when you understand. Just ask her or Dr. Ruckman.

 

By what I said, I show a falling away? Obviously, you are talking about me.

You appear to be the one making the serious charges. Who, exactly, are you referring to that is falling away? People who read and MV? Otherwise, in context of your posting, I don't see any other reason you would write this.

The scriptures you quote say exactly what you said, but who are you pointing at Michelle? Nobody will argue that the scripture says it. My NASB says the exact same thing. So, what are you saying?

Are you saying that WE are the ones who are falling away and not understanding the truth?

Tell us why you keep quoting scriptures about evil doers and wisemen who become evil? Let's get it out on the table.

 

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Oh, by the way Michelle, I notice that you quote a lot of Epistles in your quotes about scripture. Do you realize that those epistles were mostly written before the gospels were and that Paul had to preach the gospel based on his knowledge of what happened?

He did not have a book of John to carry in to the churches, at least not at the time he wrote it?

Paul is always trying to make the people understand (and especially the Jews) that Jesus is their God. The scribes and pharisees and others would not accept anything beyond the God of Abraham. So, it became a false religion, although there was truth behind it. The same as Islam, its base is the God of Abraham, but it went all wrong from there and became a false religion.

Only the acceptance of Jesus Christ, of which Paul was preaching to accept, was the accurate culmination of the scriptures.

Although, it speaks to us today. . . this has nothing to do with an English translation written 1600 years later.
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Oh, by the way, do you UNDERSTAND that Paul and the others in that day were the FOUNDATIONS OF THE CHURCH and were FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST? OR did you forget this important fact? Have you also forgotten that the words of the Lord are pure words and that God has promised them to his faithful believers for EVERY GENERATION? Have you forgotten that it is the scriptures (including the New Testament, written by the prophets/apostles of Jesus Christ to the church for edification of the churches, etc.)that testify of our Lord Jesus Christ? Have you forgotten that Jesus Christ is the Word of God? Are you saying that the New Testament is not also scripture, and that it is not perfectly presereved and provided perfectly to the saints by God? Please give scriptural support. Every single word of God is meant for us today, in order to bring us to a perfect man, in the will of God:


Ephesians 4

8. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10. He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11. And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12. For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13. Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14. That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15. But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16. From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
17. This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18. Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19. Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20. But ye have not so learned Christ;
21. If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22. That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23. And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24. And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25. Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
26. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
27. Neither give place to the devil.
28. Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
29. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32. And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.


1 Peter 2

1. Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings,
2. As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
3. If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious.
4. To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious,
5. Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.
6. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
7. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
8. And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
9. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;
10. Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
11. Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
12. Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
13. Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
14. Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
15. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

I think this shows why cults are so dangerous.

 

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Then YOU should also reject the KJVO myth since it's clearly non-Scriptural.
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Actually, what is non-scriptural is condoning of alterations of the words of the Lord whether by additions, omittions, changes:


Deuteronomy 4

1. Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgments, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the Lord God of your fathers giveth you.
2. Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God which I command you.
3. Your eyes have seen what the Lord did because of Baalpeor: for all the men that followed Baalpeor, the Lord thy God hath destroyed them from among you.
4. But ye that did cleave unto the Lord your God are alive every one of you this day.
5. Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the Lord my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it.
6. Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.
7. For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the Lord our God is in all things that we call upon him for?
8. And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?
9. Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach them thy sons, and thy sons' sons;
10. Specially the day that thou stoodest before the Lord thy God in Horeb, when the Lord said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children.


Proverbs 30

Proverbs 30

1. The words of Agur the son of Jakeh, even the prophecy: the man spake unto Ithiel, even unto Ithiel and Ucal,
2. Surely I am more brutish than any man, and have not the understanding of a man.
3. I neither learned wisdom, nor have the knowledge of the holy.
4. Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?
5. Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6. Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
7. Two things have I required of thee; deny me them not before I die:
8. Remove far from me vanity and lies: give me neither poverty nor riches; feed me with food convenient for me:
9. Lest I be full, and deny thee, and say, Who is the Lord? or lest I be poor, and steal, and take the name of my God in vain.


Revelation 22

17. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
18. For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19. And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
20. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
21. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.


Matthew 18

12. How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
13. And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.
14. Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
15. Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.


The scriptures have given at least (3) witnesses of this truth.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Let's get back to the basic issue. Please provide scriptural support for adhering to the doctrine of single-translation-onlyism. If it is a scripturally supportable doctrine, then it must be adhered to by all Christians. If it lacks scriptural support, doctrinal adherence of it must be condemned by all Christians.

 

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Some of your post is just not worthy of answering, but I will remind you, as I have done many, many, many times in the past that it is impossible (I.M.P.O.S.S.I.B.L.E) to translate ANY language to another language and maintain Word for Word.

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Wow, now you have actually limited God and HIS POWER and ABILITY. Please read this:


Luke 18

25. For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
26. And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?
27. And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

Romans 9

16. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
17. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth.
18. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
19. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20. Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21. Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22. What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23. And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,


Isaiah 29

13. Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
14. Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
15. Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the Lord, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?
16. Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?
17. Is it not yet a very little while, and Lebanon shall be turned into a fruitful field, and the fruitful field shall be esteemed as a forest?
18. And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.
19. The meek also shall increase their joy in the Lord, and the poor among men shall rejoice in the Holy One of Israel.
20. For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and all that watch for iniquity are cut off:
21. That make a man an offender for a word, and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and turn aside the just for a thing of nought.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

True. It also shows the human tendency to repeat a lie over and over as an effort to avoid the truth...

 

Actually, it is the KJVOnlyists that limit the power of God, by limiting His preservation of His Word/s to only one English translation.

 

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Posting long texts of Scripture and saying "See that proves the KJVO postion" without explaining why they do to a group of people that doesn't see it, doesn't do anything good. Phillip is right; sit down and explain exactly how they do. In other words, present your exegesis of them, or at least, a condensed explanation.
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At least I have not only explained my belief, but have shared with you all the scriptures to which my BELIEF comes from. You HAVE NOT. You have only given your "own opinions" and "opinions of men" for your belief, and false accusations of your bretheren who believes these scriptures and lives and obeys them.


Yes, I have given an explanation of these scriptures through all I have said here on these threads, and I support that BELIEF and what I have said with the scriptures to which they come from. You have not.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

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You always arrive at the same statement, michelle. It ends up with "I feel," or "God has shown me/us, " or "If you only understood, you'd understand." In short, you appeal to a special knowledge that the rest of us don't have. That is, by definition, gnostic faith.
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You are attributing me as saying something and believing someghing I have NEVER SAID. I have said quite clearly what I believe which comes from the scriptures. What you believe is CONTRARY to the scriptures and based upon your own opinions and feelings. If you would like to cast stones, you might want to look in the mirror first. My belief is scriptural. Yours is not. Yours is called COMPROMISE.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Sorry, michelle, I don't need to "support" my position, because I've not made a claim that only one version of the Bible is God's Word. You do make that claim; therefore, you need to back it up. I have never said God does not preserve His Word. I believe He does. Why should I support a claim that I share in common with you?

KJVOnlyists say that God has preserved His Word/s in the KJV ONLY. It is up to THEM to prove that claim. It is not incumbent on MV's to disprove the claim. N.O.T.H.I.N.G. you have E.V.E.R. written here has shown that the KJV itself is the sole repository of God's written Word. Don't you dare say MV's limit God, when it is the KJVO's that do, by saying the Word of God is not preserved in/by other translations. Your buddy, Askjo, in fact, just this past week made the sweeping declaration that the NASB is not the Word of God. Where was your righteous indignation there? NOWHERE, that's where. Just more of your double standards at work. MV's believe the KJV is God's Word, along with other translations like the NASB. We believe God has preserved His Word/s, but we do not limit God to one translation.

Talk about the opinions of men...What about Ruckman and his lackeys here? Ruckman claims advanced (eg. Gnostic) revelation! Where's your righteous indignation there? Again, nowhere to be found...

No, michelle, many, many times you end up with a statement that says ends up with the conclusion that God has shown you personally this information and that we are ignoring it. This past April and May is when I began calling you on it by accusing you of circular logic.

 

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If anything, what you have said above, only shows the falling away that the Lord warned us would come prior to the antichrist, the son of perdition:
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By what I said, I show a falling away? Obviously, you are talking about me.
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It might do you well Phillip, to stop taking everything one posts regarding this issue as a personal attack. This was a statement made in response to Robycops statement in his post that said:


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Seems as if more people are taking a much-closer look at the KJVO myth and are not automatically embracing it as many did when the myth was first being spread.

KJV usage hasn't really declined that much, which is good, since it IS a valid Bible version, but the idea that it's the ONLY valid English BV is slowly but surely dying out. people now have the means to find out the TRUTH for themselves more easily now.
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We can see a clear departure from truth in these days within the churches, and in most part coming from the churches that have compromised with these mv's that have altered the words of the Lord. It surely seems that apostacy is connected to these versions and disobediance to God's commands, and refusal to heed HIS warnings.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

Is Homosexuality condemned in the bible?

 

Michelle, I would NEVER limit GOD's ability to do anything. I am limiting man's ability because God inspired the original writers. MAN translated the languages.

 

Not everybody has read every post, otherwise this redundant arguing of a non-doctrinal subject would not continue.

Have you thought that since there is no scripture condoning KJVOnlyism, then it stands to reason there is going to be no scripture to provide, therefore it is non-scriptural (which means, Michelle, that it ain't in the Bible.)

 

Okay, then, so you are talking about Robycop and the other MVers. Thanks for the clarification.

 

Okay, Michelle, I'll look up all your past quotes where you said that "God showed you the KJV is the only Word of God." Spare me some time to look all of them up, since there have been sooo many posts on this subject.

Remember, what happened one time when you said you didn't say something and I posted about ten examples? Get prepared.