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Is the Masonic Lodge a "Cult"?

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, Aug 21, 2001.

  1. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    Here is some information from my collected files on Freemasonry:

    http://www.ephesians5-11.org/
    http://www.saintsalive.com/freemasonry.html
    http://user.icx.net/~baxtor/ (from a Baptist)
    http://www.nisbett.com/freemasonry/free03.htm
    http://www.gospeloutreach.net/christmason.html

    And from http://www.gospeloutreach.net/anticquot.html comes the following:

    Anti-Christian Quotes the Masons
    Don't Want You to See

    * As Sovereign Grand Commander Henry C. Claussen admits, "It must be apparent
    that the Blue Lodge ... degrees cannot explain the whole of Masonry. They are
    the foundation...An initiate may imagine he understands the ethics, symbols
    and enigmas, whereas a true explanation of these is reserved for the more
    adept" [Claussen's Commentaries on Morals and Dogma ... p. 148]

    In Albert G. Mackey's Revised Encyclopedia of Freemasonry he states, "All
    [Masons] unite in declaring it to be a system of morality, by the practice of
    which its members may advance their spiritual interest, and mount by the
    theological ladder from the Lodge on earth to the Lodge in heaven. [Vol.I p.
    269]

    "It is a science which is engaged in the search after Divine Truth, and which
    employs symbolism as its method of instruction" [Mackey's Revised
    Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, Vol.I p. 269] "[Masonry is] that religious and
    mystical society whose aim is moral perfection on the basis of general
    equality and fraternity" [ibid] "Freemasonry, in its broadest and most
    comprehensive sense, is a system of morality and social ethics, a primitive
    religion, and a philosophy of life ... incorporating a broad humanitarianism
    ... It is a religion without a creed, being of no sect by finding truth in
    all ... It seeks truth but does not define truth..." [Henry Wilson Coil, A
    Comprehensive View of Freemasonry, p. 234]

    Religion -- a belief in a divine or super human power...to be obeyed and
    worshipped as the Creator and ruler of the universe; expression of ... this
    belief in conduct and ritual ... [Webster's New World Dictionary]

    "Freemasonry certainly requires a belief in the existence of, and man's
    dependence upon, a Supreme Being to whom he is responsible. What can a church
    add to that, except to bring into one fellowship those who have like
    feelings? ... That is exactly what the Lodge does." [Coil's Masonic
    Encyclopedia, p. 512]

    Albert Mackey in Mackey's Revised Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, the third most
    recommended author by the Grand Lodges, quotes Webster's definition of
    religion then comments, "Freemasonry may rightfully claim to be called a
    religious institution" [Vol. II, p. 847]

    He who wears the lambskin as a badge of a Mason is thereby continually
    reminded of purity of life and conduct which is essentially necessary to his
    gaining admission into that celestial Lodge above, where the Supreme
    Architect of the universe presides" [Malcom C. Duncan, Masonic Ritual and
    Monitor p. 50] [Grand Lodge of Texas, A.F. and A.M., Monitor of the Lodge:
    Monitorial Instructions in the Three Degrees of Symbolic Masonry, p. 88]

    "Freemasonry has a religious service to commit the body of a deceased brother
    to the dust whence it came, and to speed the liberated spirit back to the
    Great Source of Light. Many Freemasons make this flight with *no other
    guarantee of a safe landing than their belief in the religion of
    Freemasonry*" [Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia, p. 512]

    Some Masons say, along with Masonic apologist Alphonse Cerza, "Freemasonry
    cannot be a religion because it has not creed; it has not confession of
    faith; it has not theology, no ritual of worship" [Alphonse Cerza, "Let There
    Be Light" p. 41]

    Webster defines "creed" as: "a statement of belief, principles, or opinions
    on any subject".

    In Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia we find: "Does Freemasonry have a creed ... or
    tenet ... or dogma ... to which all members must adhere? Does Freemasonry
    continually teach and insist upon a creed, tenet and dogma? Does it have
    meetings characterized by the practice of rites and ceremonies in, and by
    which, its creed tenet and dogma are illustrated, in myth, symbols and
    allegories? If Freemasonry were not religion, what would have to be done to
    make it such? Nothing would be necessary, or at least nothing but to add more
    of the same" [[p. 512]

    Coil goes on to admit that not only does Freemasonry have a creed, but it
    also functions as a church. "That brings us to the real crux of the matter.
    The difference between a Lodge and a church is one of degree and not kind.
    Some think because it [the Lodge] is not a strong or highly formalized or
    highly dogmatized religion, such as the Roman Catholic Church ... it can be
    no religion at all. But a church of friends (Quakers) exhibits even less
    formality and ritual then does a Masonic Lodge" [p. 512].

    In conclusion, Coil writes, "The fact that Freemasonry is a mild religion
    does not mean that it is no religion" p. 512].

    Does Freemasonry teach its own theology, as a religion does? "For example,
    Masonry clearly teaches theology during the Royal Arch degree (York Rite),
    when it tells each candidate that the lost name for God will now be revealed
    to them. The name that is given is Jahbulon. This is a composite term joining
    Jehovah with two pagan gods -- the evil Canaanite deity Baal (Jeremiah 19:5;
    Judges 3:7; 10:6), and the Egyptian god Osiris [Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia,
    p. 516; Malcom C. Duncan, Masonic Ritual and Monitor, p. 226].

    The Oxford American Dictionary defines theology as "a system of religion."
    Webster defines theology as "the study of God and the relation between God
    and the universe ... A specific form or system ... as expounded by a
    particular religion or denomination".

    Does Masonry fulfill these definitions?

    "As Joseph Fort Newton said, "Everything in Masonry has reference to God,
    implies God, speaks of God, points and leads to God. Not a degree, not a
    symbol, not an obligation, not a lecture, not a charge but finds its meaning
    and derives its beauty from God, the Great Architect, in whose temple all
    Masons are workmen" [The Religion of Freemasonry, An Interpretation, p.
    58-59].

    Anyone who says the Masonic Lodge does not teach theology is uninformed or
    just plain lying.

    Webster's Dictionary defines "worship" as "a prayer...or other rite showing
    reverence or devotion for a deity ..." -- for God.

    "Masons walk in His [God's] presence constantly...[In ritual the "lights" --
    candles] formed a triangle about the altar at which you knelt in reverence.
    They symbolized the presence of Deity ... The Masonic altar can be said to be
    one of sacrifice ... You have taken obligations [to God] that have sacrificed
    your self-interest forevermore" [Allen E. Roberts, The Craft and Its Symbols:
    Opening The Door to Masonic Symbolism, p. 57, 64]

    "Freemasonry's Lodges are erected to God ... Symbolically, to 'erect to God'
    means to construct something in honor, in worship, in reverence to and for
    Him. Hardly is the initiate within the West Gate before he is impressed that
    Freemasonry worships God" [Carl H. Claudy, Foreign Countries: A Gateway t the
    Interpretation and Development of Certain Symbols of Freemasonry, p. 23].

    As Albert Pike admitted in Morals and Dogma, "Masonry is a [system] of
    worship" p. 526].

    "The fact that Freemasonry is a mild religion does not mean that it is no
    religion" [Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia, p. 512]

    Is Freemasonry a religion? "We open and close our Lodges with prayer; we
    invoke the blessing of the Most High upon all our labors; we demand of our
    neophytes a profession of trusting belief in the existence and superintending
    care of God; and we teach them to bow with humility and reverence at his
    sacred name, while his holy law is widely opened upon our altars ... It is
    impossible that a Freemason can be 'true and trusty' to his order unless he
    is a respecter of religion and an observer of religious principle" Mackey's
    Revised Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, Vol. II, p. 847]

    "The religion of Freemasonry is not sectarian. It admits men of every creed
    within its hospitable bosom, rejecting none and approving none for his
    peculiar faith. It is not Judaism, though there is nothing in it to offend
    the Jew; it is not Christianity, but there is nothing in it repugnant to the
    faith of a Christian. Its religion is that general one of nature and
    primitive revelation handed down to us from some ancient and patriarchal
    priesthood -- in which all men may agree and in which no men can differ"
    [Mackey's Revised Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, Vol. II, p. 847-48].

    Henry Wilson Coil in his 15,000-word article proving Freemasonry is a
    religion correctly concludes: Nothing herein is intended to be an argument
    that Freemasonry ought to be religion. Our purpose is simply to determine
    what it has become, an is" [Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia, p. 513].

    During Masonic ceremonies various symbols are employed. Different symbols are
    used to identify the same idea or teaching -- for example, both the compass
    and the sprig of the acacia can symbolize immortality [The Craft And Its
    Symbols: Opening The Door To Masonic Symbolism, p. 62,80].

    "To study the symbolism of Masonry is the only way to investigate its
    philosophy" [The Symbolism of Freemasonry, p. 5].

    Albert Mackey who held the highest position Masonry has to offer has told us
    that candidate who seeks to enter the Lodge is seeking divine truth.

    "There he stand without [outside] our portals, on the threshold of his new
    Masonic life, in darkness, helplessness and ignorance. Having been wandering
    amid the errors and covered over with the pollutions of the outer and profane
    world, he comes inquiringly to our door, seeking the new birth, and asking a
    withdrawal of the veil which conceals divine truth from his uninitiated
    sight" [The Manual of the Lodge, p. 20].

    In Henry Wilson Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia he writes, "Light is everywhere
    the symbol of intelligence, information, knowledge, and truth and is opposed
    to darkness which symbolizes ignorance and evil. So, in the ceremonies, the
    candidate is said to be brought from darkness to light" [p. 375].

    Masonry teaches that their God, The Great Architect of the Universe must
    remain undefined.

    "Men have to decide whether they want a God like the ancient Hebrew Jahweh, a
    partisan tribal god, with whom they can talk and argue and from whom they can
    hide if necessary, or a boundless, eternal, universal, undenominational, and
    international Divine Spirit, so vastly removed from the speck called man,
    that he cannot be known, named or approached. So soon as man begins to laud
    his God and endow him with the most perfect human attributes such as justice,
    mercy, beneficence, etc., the Divine Essence is depreciated and despoiled ...
    Monotheism ... violates Masonic principles, for it requires belief in a
    specific kind of Supreme Deity" [Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia, p. 516-17].

    "Specifically, the Masonic Lodge teaches its belief in the unity and
    universality of all men as "one family" accepted by God regardless of race,
    religion, or creed [The Craft and its Symbols: Opening the Door to Masonic
    Symbolism, p. 21]

    "through these teachings the Mason will put into practice the brotherhood of
    man under the Fatherhood of God. In doing so, he will develop his character
    and personality in the image of the Great Architect of the Universe" [ibid.
    p. 84]

    "Among the most beautiful of Freemasonry's symbols, these express at the very
    beginning the fundamental principle of Freemasonry: the Fatherhood of God,
    and the Brotherhood of man" [A Gateway to the Interpretation and Development
    of Certain Symbols of Freemasonry, p. 24]

    "The temple that the Craft is building is the unification and the harmonizing
    of the entire human family. this is summed up for us in the will known lines:
    'God hath made mankind one vast brotherhood, Himself their Master, and the
    world His Lodge'" [The Spirit of Masonry, p. 110]

    As Martin L. Wagner has correctly stated, "This Great Architect as conceived
    by Freemasons is not identical with the Jehovah of Christianity, but ... is
    another and distinct entity." He says they "are entirely separate and
    different, mutually exclusive and no syncretism can harmonize them"
    [Freemasonry: An Interpretation, p. 321, 300].

    "The God of the nineteen-twentieths of the Christian world is only Bel
    [Baal], Molach, Zeus, or at best Osiris, Mythras or Adonai, under another
    name, worshipped with the old pagan ceremonies and ritualistic formulas ..."
    [Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry,
    p. 295-96].

    The candidate is clearly instructed in his Masonic manual that the term
    "Jahbulon" is a composite term for Jehovah (Jah), Baal (Bul or Bel), and
    Osiris (On, a corruption of Os) [Masonic Ritual and Monitor, p. 226].

    "In this compound name an attempt is made to show by a co-ordination of
    divine names...the unity, identity, and harmony of the Hebrew, Assyrian and
    Egyptian god-ideas, and the harmony of the Royal Arch religion with these
    ancient religions. This Masonic 'unity of God' is peculiar. It is the
    doctrine that the different names of gods as Brahma, Jehovah, Baal, Bel, Om,
    On, etc., all denote the generative principle, and that all religions are
    essentially the same in their ideas of the divine" [Freemasonry: An
    Interpretation, p. 338-39].

    Masonry also teaches that God is an amalgamation of all gods: "[The Mason]
    may name Him [God] as he will, think of Him as he pleases; make Him
    impersonal law or personal and anthropomorphic; Freemasonry cares not ...
    God, Great Architect of the Universe, Grand Artificer, Grand Master of the
    Grand Lodge Above, Jehovah, Allah, Buddha, Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, or Great
    Geometer ..." [Introduction to Freemasonry Vol II:110, by Carl H. Claudy]

    But the Bible teaches that the Christian God alone is the one true God

    He is not an amalgamation of all gods;

    "O Lord, the God of Israel, there is no god like Thee in heaven or on earth
    ..."
    (2 Chronicles 6:14).

    "I am the Lord, that is My name; I will not give my glory to another" (Isaiah
    42:8).

    "Acknowledge and take to heart this day that the Lord is God in heaven above
    and on the earth below. There is no other." (Deuteronomy 4:39 NIV).

    Masonry also denies the biblical teaching on Jesus Christ. Albert Pike taught
    that Masonry held that Jesus Christ was only a man and not God:

    "It reverences all the great reformers. It sees in Moses, the Lawgiver, of
    the Jews, in Confucius and Zoroaster, in Jesus of Nazareth, and in the
    Arabian Iconoclast, Great Teachers of Morality, and Eminent Reformers, if no
    more ..." (Morals and Dogma, p. 525).

    The important Masonic Ritual called the Maundy Thursday Ritual of the chapter
    of Rose Croix states officially, "We meet this day to commemorate the death
    [of Jesus], not as inspired or divine, for this is not for us to decide.
    [Henry C. Clausen, Practice and Procedure for the Scottish Rite, Washington
    DC, The Supreme Council, 33rd, Degree, Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of
    Freemasonry, Mother Jurisdiction of the World, 1981].

    As for Past Master Mason Edmund Ronayne confesses: "The very religious
    philosophy and false worship which caused Jehovah to destroy His own temple,
    and banish into captivity His ancient people, are precisely the same
    philosophy and worship which modern Masons profess shall fit them for the
    glories of heaven" [E. Ronayne, Chapter Masonry, Chicago, Il, Ezra A. Cook.
    1984, p. 126].

    "Freemasonry 'carefully excludes' the Lord Jesus Christ from the Lodge and
    chapter, repudiates his meadiatorship, rejects his atonement, denies and
    disowns his gospel, frowns upon his religion and his church, ignores the Holy
    Spirit, and sets up for itself a spiritual empire, a religious theocracy, at
    the head of which it places the G.A.O.T.U. - the god of nature - and from
    which the one only living and true God is expelled by resolution... [Edmond
    Ronayne, The Master's Carpet; or Masonry and Baal-Worship - Identical, p. 87]

    In Coil's Masonic Encyclopedia we read, "The prevailing Masonic opinion is
    that the Bible is only a symbol of Divine Will, Law, or Revelation, and not
    that its contents are Divine Law, inspired, or revealed. So far, no
    responsible authority has held that a Freemason must believe the Bible or any
    part of it" (p. 520)

    The Bibles of other faiths are equally valid for the Mason, Mackey's Revised
    Encyclopedia of Freemasonry states:

    "The Bible is used among Freemasons as a symbol of the will of God, however
    it may be expressed. Therefore, whatever to any people expresses that will
    [of God] may be used as a substitute for the Bible in a Masonic Lodge. Thus,
    in a Lodge consisting entirely of Jews, the Old Testament alone may be placed
    upon the altar, and Turkish Freemasons [Muslims] make use of the Koran.
    Whether it be the Gospels to the Christian, the Pentateuch to the Israelite,
    the Koran to the Mussulman, [sic; Muslim] or the Vedas to the Brahman, it
    everywhere Masonically conveys the same idea -- that of the symbolism of the
    Divine Will revealed to man" [Mackey's Revised Encyclopedia of Freemasonry,
    vol. 1 p. 133].

    "Thus, by the very honor which Masonry pays to the Bible, it teaches us to
    revere every book of faith ... joining hands with the man of Islam as he
    takes oath on the Koran, and with the Hindu as he makes covenant with God
    upon the book that he loves best ... [Masonry] invites to its altar men of
    all faiths, knowing that, if they use different names for 'the nameless one
    of a hundred names' they are yet praying to the one God and Father of all;
    knowing, also, that while they read different volumes, they are in fact
    reading the same vast Book of the Faith of Man as revealed in the struggle
    and sorrow of the race in its quest of God. [Temple Illustrated Edition of
    the Holy Bible, by Joseph Fort Newton, p. 3-4]

    How can a Christian Mason, who claims to believe that the Bible is the
    literal Word of God, help promote an organization that denies the Bible is
    God's Word and denies Jesus' teaching on the Bible? Scripture tells us we are
    to live "worthy of the God who calls you into His own kingdom and glory" (1
    Thessalonians. 2:12).
     
  2. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    bustr said, "You can't have my bank records either. Does that make them satanic?"

    Only if you and others make secret blood oaths concerning them and/or conclude your "reconcile the checkbook gathering" with a prayer to "Jahbulon!" :eek: :D
     
  3. bustr

    bustr New Member

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    You should've read my posts. Don't say anything to me until you have done so.
     
  4. bustr

    bustr New Member

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    For your re-reading pleasure

    I've taken oaths. Ths one that stands out the most was the one that I took on my wedding day. JahBulon (sp) does not refer to any pagan gods. I'm not sure of it's relevance, if any, to masonry. It certainly isn't a term I've heard in the craft lodge which is the inner circle of masonry. However, I have studied cyphers and can tell you that it doesn't represent a composite god. It is a word made up of 3 different languages and only refers to the one true god.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Posts: 42 | From: | Registered: Aug 2001

    bustr
    Member
    Member # 1514
    posted August 17, 2001 11:45 PM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    BTW. The one true God goes by the name YHVH in the Hebrew language but translation and intentional scrambling on the part of early Christians yields a variety of cryptic names. This was done for safety reasons to keep the Roman authorities out of their business.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Posts: 42 | From: | Registered: Aug 2001

    bustr
    Member
    Member # 1514
    posted August 17, 2001 11:54 PM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    "Would you care to refute any and all of my earlier post, including quotes from published Masonic writings?"
    Like I've already said there is not a masonic manifesto. If a mason writes something it is his opinion. He does not speak for masonry. Even if the often mis-quoted and mis-interpreted Albert Pike held new age beliefs they were HIS beliefs. He had no authority to speak for masonry. There are no masonic "beliefs" other than:

    The Fatherhood of God

    The Brotherhood of Man

    The Immortality of the Soul

    Matters of faith and denominational specifics are personal and are not discussed in any craft lodge functions.

    [ August 17, 2001: Message edited by: bustr ]


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  5. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    Bustr,

    What degree Mason are you, please?
     
  6. bustr

    bustr New Member

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    Master Mason 3rd Degree. The highest there is. You see the Shrine, Scottish Rite, York Rite, Grotto etc. are, shall we say, extracurricular. Involvement in those bodies is not required and their numbered degrees are less important than the 3rd. The Craft Lodge is the foundation of the organization and without a charter from it the appendant bodies don't exist as masonic organizations. There is no theology in masonry other than the belief in one God. There is one appendant body that is strictly for Christians and there may be others for Jews, Muslims etc. but in the Craft Lodge a man's faith is his own personal business. Faith (along with politics or any other divisive subject) is not discussed in the lodge. It's really a good place for men to set aside personal differences and just get along.
     
  7. Larry

    Larry Member
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    “There are no masonic "beliefs" other than:
    The Fatherhood of God
    The Brotherhood of Man
    The Immortality of the Soul”

    John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil,…

    “Master Mason 3rd Degree”

    Matthew 23:10
    Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.
    :(
     
  8. bustr

    bustr New Member

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    "John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil,…"

    He may be your father but not mine.

    "Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ."

    Master refers to a level of expertise in the craft not a mastery of other humans.

    This is typical. I shoot down all of the false accusations toward masonry and someone takes scripture even FURTHER out of context than before. The anti-masons have failed with their conventional arguments. Their objections have been proven to be un-founded so now they scramble to come up with new objections. This is simply a holy war by certain people on masonry because it's outside of their sphere of influence. You despise us because you can't control us.
     
  9. Larry

    Larry Member
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    "John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil,…" that wasn’t an accusation. It was simply to show that the “fatherhood of God and brotherhood of man” Is hog wash.

    You said “Master refers to a level of expertise in the craft not a mastery of other humans” Is that why you all have “Worshipful Masters”?

    Worshipful??? C-mon… what could possably posess a Christian to alow anyone to address him as Worshipful Master?
    Revelation 19:10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant…
     
  10. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    bustr said, "You should've read my posts. Don't say anything to me until you have done so."

    A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult. (Prov 12:16 NIV)

    Pride only breeds quarrels, but wisdom is found in those who take advice. (Prov 13:10 NIV)

    After no less than a dozen godly men and women have rebuked you, we still see the stubborn pride of a "worshipful master."
     
  11. bustr

    bustr New Member

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    ""John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil,…" that wasn’t an accusation. It was simply to show that the “fatherhood of God and brotherhood of man” Is hog wash."

    God created all of us not just Christians. Therefore we're all his children.

    "You said “Master refers to a level of expertise in the craft not a mastery of other humans”"

    Yes

    Is that why you all have “Worshipful Masters”?

    Worshipful (respectable) master is the master of ceremonies. This has turned into an argument over semantics and that is something I don't care to get into.

    Wells

    You started the flaming on that other thread. I tried to be dordial but you wouldn't have it.
     
  12. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    Long past time to knock the "dust off the sandals" on this one! ;)
     
  13. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    Whoa, Bustr!!!!

    You wrote
    "God created all of us not just Christians. Therefore we're all his children."

    That is not only unbiblical, it is anti-biblical!

    If what you said were true, it would be impossible for Christ to have honestly called anyone sons of the devil.

    If what you said were true, there would be no need to be born again in Christ.

    If what you said were true, John 1:12-13 is a lie. It reads,
    "Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God -- children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God."

    That is VERY limiting as to who are considered children of God and just where the brotherhood extends!

    The Masons have lied to you and you have swallowed it hook, line, and sinker.

    If you consider yourself a Christian at all, please pray to the God of the Bible and ask for Him to show you absolutely clearly what the truth of this matter is. If you are really asking and not just 'challenging' Him, you will get the answer. My prayer for you is that you will have eyes opened to see.

    And I strongly recommend reading Ephesians 2:11-21
     
  14. bustr

    bustr New Member

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    Semantics again. God commanded eveything into existence including us. Therefore we are all his creation ie: his children.
     
  15. John Wells

    John Wells New Member

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    If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. (1 John 1:6 NIV)
     
  16. bustr

    bustr New Member

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    "If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. (1 John 1:6 NIV)"

    Has nothing to do with my situation. Being a mason means being a fraternity member. It has little to do with your relationship to God.
     
  17. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    Bustr wrote: "God commanded eveything into existence including us. Therefore we are all his creation ie: his children. "

    Baloney! If we are all his children then so are the plants, the rocks, the stars, and bacteria. Don't mix up the concept of children with creation. Two entirely different things!

    For instance, a carpenter may build a house, but that house is not his child. I am creating this response to you, and I can guarantee this response is not my child! I already quoted the verses to you which indicate how one becomes a child of God. If you think this is just semantics, then that is also what you think of the Bible.

    You are truly deceived.

    Why is the occultic nonsense of Masonry more important to you than God's Word?
     
  18. bustr

    bustr New Member

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    From Young's Literal Translation

    John 1

    12
    but as many as did receive him to them he gave authority to become sons of God -- to those believing in his name,
    13
    who -- not of blood nor of a will of flesh, nor of a will of man but -- of God were begotten.

    If I understand you correctly you have a problem with me addressing other masons as brother. You have no case. I have already explained why masonry is not a cult and does not (and in fact is forbidden from) interfere with a brother's relationship to God. It sounds to me like you think that God only loves fundies.

    Newsflash:

    21
    `Not every one who is saying to me Lord, lord, shall come into the reign of the heavens; but he who is doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens.
    22
    Many will say to me in that day, Lord, lord, have we not in thy name prophesied? and in thy name cast out demons? and in thy name done many mighty things?
    23
    and then I will acknowledge to them, that -- I never knew you, depart from me ye who are working lawlessness.


    BTW. Masonry is not a religion and has no plan of salvation. Monotheism is required because of the moral convictions that come with it. This was necessary to prevent theft and such on jobsites. Specific theological discussions are forbidden because they are divisive. And don't tell me that only Christians have a conciense. On of the most caring persons I know is Jewish and some of the meanest are Christians as exhibited in yours' and Wells' posts.
     
  19. Larry

    Larry Member
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    Buster Quotes:
    _______________________________________________________________
    “….. THERE IS NO MANIFESTO OF FREEMASONRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
    “…..There are no masonic beliefs. Masons follow their own individual faiths. ….”

    ”Like I've already said there is not a masonic manifesto. If a mason writes something it is his opinion. He does not speak for masonry.…..There are no masonic "beliefs" other than: The Fatherhood of God The Brotherhood of Man The Immortality of the Soul Matters of faith and denominational specifics are personal and are not discussed in any craft lodge functions.”
    __________________________________________________________________
    Translation:
    You cant pin us down…we don’t believe anything, with the exclusion of three little things. Nobody can speak for masonry…they only express opinions.
    ___________________________________________________________________
    More Buster Quotes:
    “If I understand you correctly you have a problem with me addressing other masons as brother. You have no case. I have already explained why masonry is not a cult and does not (and in fact is forbidden from) interfere with a brother's relationship to God. It sounds to me like you think that God only loves fundies.”
    “BTW. Masonry is not a religion and has no plan of salvation. Monotheism is required …………….. Specific theological discussions are forbidden ……………


    Translation
    In my opinion, masonry is not a cult … we are forbidden from doing certain things and required to do others. But that’s only opinion.
    Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee!

    [ September 09, 2001: Message edited by: Larry ]
     
  20. Psalm145 3

    Psalm145 3 New Member

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Specific theological discussions are forbidden because they are divisive. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division

    Ephesians 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
     
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