Is the soul created?

Good grief, JFox1!! The day I go to a Catholic site for info will be the day I say "beam me up, Scotty!"

 

Born with a sinful flesh because Adam sinned and so it has to die the natural death, but it does not have a sinful soul. If it had a sinful soul how could the Scripture be that says " the soul that sinneth shall die"?

 

Sorry, had a lot to do today but I love your thinking...

Of all my views that appear radical, I admit this will raise your eyebrows. But please hear me out before you judge. Then feel free to throw as many rocks at my theory as you like. This is how we grow.

If one watches the creation story carefully, one will see GOD performing two distinct actions. He first creates then he makes. Gen 1 says he created but there was nothing. Verse 3 is when he made by saying let there be then there was something tangible...

Compare that to Walt Disney who first created Mickey Mouse in his mind. At that time, Mickey was a character only in the mind of its creator. When he drew Mickey on the paper, he then made Mickey which was when others could share in his creation.

Using this logic, I believe GOD created not only the earth, but all there was and will be, from the beginning. The short version that I can expound more into if you like, is GOD is mind and we are living in the mind of GOD. Knowing this, I contend our souls are created with the initial creation but time has yet to meet with destiny. So your soul is there, but it is only created in GOD's mind. When time meets with destiny (birth) others can behold GODS creation which is you.

I do believe the soul is created free of sin. I do believe a baby is born free from sin. What we have at birth is a sin nature which is not sin, but the potential or "will" to sin. This sin is in our flesh and not our soul. This is why Paul says, "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing:...

Now let's look at Jesus, he was born human and divine. he had the potential to sin or satan would not have tempted him in the wilderness. What good would it have been to say Jesus stayed sin free if he did not have the ability to sin? I believe satan knows who can be tempted because he did not waste time with Job until GOD removed the hedge.

So what Jesus had (his human flesh) was a sin nature, yet he resisted this nature and did not sin which is why his blood remained sinless. I believe this sort of aligns with what Bob said about babies not sinning.

Now my turn, compare these two verses, one seems to say we go astray at birth but the other appears to say you can be sanctified in the womb. Thoughts?

PS 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

 

Refresh my memory (I'm too lazy to get up and get my Bible), is it the bible that says sin is passed on by the man or is that myth?

If it is Bible, what other contribution does man make?

 

There are a lot of Mormons that think that.

But the point is - the Bible does not show it to be true.

However going down that road for a minute -- if God is eternal from eternity past, if God has always been all knowing and always foreknew your salvation from eternity past - then are you God - are you a being who is ALSO from "eternity past"?

I vote - no.

 

Romans 5 shows that through Adam ALL sin and ALL die. Just as IN CHRIST ALL shall be made alive! BOTH of them extend the scope of their work to the same ALL!!

 

Don't stop now, this was just getting good. At 79 I'm sure you have a few more minutes before you turn in for the night.

I'm still intered in your thoughts.

Now my turn, compare these two verses, one seems to say we go astray at birth but the other appears to say you can be sanctified in the womb. Thoughts?

PS 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.

Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.

 

So is this in the predestination sense of GOD placed sin in our path from birth? Or is this just to say we have free will yet GOD being all knowing knew what paths we would choose?

Possibly, but I seem to remember in the jewish tradition, a child under the age of "accountability" was not considered capable of sinning. Certianly man has something sinful at birth as evident by your grand kinds, I guess this entire discussion is WHAT IS THAT SOMETHING?

One of my students presented this to me, Jeremiah was a man. Like all men he had to have sinned. Since he was sanctified before birth, this means he sinned while also being sanctified.

There are many who contend, once coming to Christ we can no longer sin. I know Jeremiah was not covered by the blood of Christ, but does this mean he was above transgressing the law? i thought that was an interesting question...

 

This is indeed an interesting topic. I believe that God created me and that I didn't always exist. I don't believe in the pre-existence of the soul. That was taught by Tertullian, New Agers, and the Mormons. Elihu declared in the Book of Job, "The Spirit of God has made me, and the breath of the Almighty gives me life." Job 33:4 NASB. "Then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it." Ecclesiastes 12:7 NASB. God gave me my soul, not my parents.

 

I dont think God is the author of sin because He creates human beings with the propensity to sin, anymore than when He created the Angels and they had a free will and Lucifer decided to be selfish.

Sin is the transgression of the Law, that is the only biblical definition of sin.

We arent born sinners. We have to be aware of what we are doing before it becomes sin.

Jms:4:17: Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

and sin is a choice WE make... If we couldnt help but to sin THEN it would be God's fault.


Claudia

 

...and the Biblical definition of a soul is body plus breath.