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Is there any evidence?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by robycop3, Nov 8, 2006.

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  1. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    WARNING:

    I am quickly tiring of the mean spirited attitude of some posting here. If the discussion cannot remain civil posts will be deleted and the thread will be closed.
     
  2. Herb Evans

    Herb Evans New Member

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    10 Questions for the Non-KJO



    Well, Keith let us do a little exploratory of your non-one-versionist views.

    1. Do you belive the original Autographs were inspired by God? Part of it or all of it?
    2. Do you believe that any Bible is inspired today?
    3. Which one?
    4. Do all Bibles have errors?
    5. If yes, which one has the least error?
    6. Do you believe that God preserved His or part of His word or parts of His word?
    7. Where?
    8. What is your authority for your views? History? Language? Professor Whatchamahaczysz? Logic? Reasoning? Your thoughts? Your support tools? What?
    9. Do you believe that the scriptures can THROUGHLY FURNISH the man of God or must he use support tools?
    10. If you do, which?
     
  3. Herb Evans

    Herb Evans New Member

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    That is exactly what some thread killers want. If I am being mean spirited, please call my attention to it specifically. -- Herb Evans
     
  4. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Let's just put it this way - both sides need to step back and take a deep breath. We are supposed to be brothers in Christ here and using personal names that are not associated with screen names or signatures is frowned on here.
     
  5. Herb Evans

    Herb Evans New Member

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    Okay, I used Philip, and Keith used Cranston; I did not realize that was being mean spirited. Now, that I know, I will abide by your rule. -- Herb Evans
     
  6. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Yerp! Here's yer evidence, both from Scripture itself, and from the languages involved.

    Just compare Isaiah 42:7 and 61:1-3 with what JESUS READ ALOUD, AND CALLED SCRIPTURE, in Luke 4:16-21. Ya kin do da same wif Isaiah 53:7-8 and Acts 8:32-33.

    Then, there are the multiple correct meanings of many, MANY Greek & Hebrew words/phrases. With all those possible meanings, no two indy groups of translators are gonna translate the whole Bible exactly alike from the same manuscripts...not to mention the over-5000 mss now available. There ya go!

    Now...Can you answer the original question I placed in the OP...IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE SUPPORTING ONE-VERSIONISM?
     
  7. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Keith can answer for himself, but I'll answer for me...

    Herb Evans:

    1. Do you belive the original Autographs were inspired by God? Part of it or all of it?

    Yes...all of them.

    2. Do you believe that any Bible is inspired today?
    3. Which one?

    Yes...Every valid version is equally inspired.


    4. Do all Bibles have errors?

    Yes, in every one I've ever read...some technical errors, translators' opinions, poor translations, etc. I don't count differences in translators' use of different correct meanings for the same Greek/hebrew word/phrase as error.


    5. If yes, which one has the least error?

    Dunno...I aint counted'em.


    6. Do you believe that God preserved His or part of His word or parts of His word?
    7. Where?

    Yes...in the mss we have, & in every valid translation, regardless of language.


    8. What is your authority for your views? History? Language? Professor Whatchamahaczysz? Logic? Reasoning? Your thoughts? Your support tools? What?

    Their creation. Their existence. One either believes GOD caused'em to be made, or man made'em on his own. I TRUST GOD to have told us about Himself, & what he wants us to do.


    9. Do you believe that the scriptures can THROUGHLY FURNISH the man of God or must he use support tools?

    Depends upon what he's doing, and with whom he's doing it. Some understand more quickly than others. But it all must be based with & upon SCRIPTURE.

    10. If you do, which?[/quote]

    Concordances, dictionaries, Greek & Hebrew-English lexicons, world history books & encyclopediae, similar references.

    Now, willya answer the opening questions of this thread...IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE SUPPORTING ANY ONE-VERSIONISM? If there is, what is it?
     
  8. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    The issue or point concerns whether there is any valid evidence for suggesting that only the KJV is the Bible or the word of God.

    Is the word of God only the 1535 Coverdale's Bible? Is the Bible only the Great Bible? Is the word of God only the 1560 Geneva Bible? Is the Bible only Luther's German Bible? Is the word of God only the Spanish Valera?
    Is the Bible only the 1611 KJV or the 1769 KJV or some other KJV edition?

    The 1611 KJV is only one branch of the KJV-only tree of good Bibles. It is not the entire tree. The KJV is a revision of earlier English Bibles (Tyndale's to Bishops') along with being a translation of the preserved Scriptures in the original languages. Was the KJV a revision of earlier English Bibles that were or were not the word of God? What happens when one branch is cut off a tree and is purposely separated from the other branches and from its trunk and roots?

    Without a connection to its original language sources and its English foundation of the pre-1611 English Bibles, how can it be accurately determined which edition of the many varying editions is the best one?
    Was the KJV a revision of pre-1611 English Bibles that were or were not profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness?
     
  9. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Herb Evans:Philip, Well, I did not refer to KJO talk in my post to Keith; you are the one that is obsessed with the KJO thing.

    OK, Sir, if you're not One-Versionist, nor KJVO, what other English version(s) do you recommend?

    So, where is the word that I am supposed to speak according to?

    In every valid version.


    And when we find it, will you or Keith take up the challenge? Or shall we continue in the "We have no BIble today" thing in that the inspired Bible has expired. -- Herb Evans

    I don't recall my saying that any inspired Bible has expired. Which one(s) did I say had expired? (I can't speak for Keith.) Was it Coverdale's Bible? Great Bible? Bishop's Bible? Geneva Bible? Any one I didn't mention here?

    Do YOU believe any of the above has expired? Or, any other valid version I haven't mentioned? If so, what made'em expire? Have all English Bibles expired but one version? If so, which one, and why?
     
  10. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    That's a very interesting point and question, J Jump! I cannot answer it myself!

    C4K, do you care if we discuss this on this thread? Or wouldja rather we started a new thread?
     
  11. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Logos 1560, the only evidence within Scripture itself pointing to ANY one version is for the version JESUS READ ALOUD, & CALLED SCRIPTURE in Luke 4:16-21....and the original letters of Paul that Peter called Scripture...and for John's original copy of the Revelation. The very fact that WE read TRANSLATIONS of those Scriptures insteada the originals points to multiversions being the RULE & not the exception.

    I have tried on several boards to find out if anyone knows just what version of the OT that Jesus read from in Luke 4, but so far, not even the most astute of the experts who've discussed that fact have been able to ID any one text as "the one". Dr. Cassidy believes it to have been a vorlage Hebrew text, while others believe it to have been a version of the LXX. But one thing is TRUE...It was NOT the Ben Chayyim Masoretic Text. Therefore, that text was NOT confirmed by JESUS as being "the one", but translators use it anyway. Ironic, to say the least....
     
  12. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Let's do this elsewhere please
     
  13. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    OK!

    Copy, J Jump?
     
  14. Rufus_1611

    Rufus_1611 New Member

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    What about Luke 4 suggests to you that He read from a text?
     
  15. Herb Evans

    Herb Evans New Member

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    Are these support tools as inspired, infallible, and inerrant as the word of God, or are they man made? Do they have errors in them? -- Herb Evans

    Sir, thank you for giving us a profile on what you believe. I would like for you to CLEARLY clarify the points that I addressed above before I answer this question. --Herb Evans
     
  16. Herb Evans

    Herb Evans New Member

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    These early English Bible are not in public usage or publication. They served there purpose until the KJB and wer basically good Bibles. The Spanish will have to determine their own Bible. -- Herb Evans

    While you are correct about the KJB Bible's roots, the KJB is not a revision of those Bibles. The KJB translators diligently compared those Bibles and other languguage Bibles. -- Herb Evans

    Without a connection to its original language sources and its English foundation of the pre-1611 English Bibles, how can it be accurately determined which edition of the many varying editions is the best one?
    Was the KJV a revision of pre-1611 English Bibles that were or were not profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness?

    You are assuming that it must be man's determination. That is a humanistic way to look at it. God determines that, and I trust Him for that.

    But let us stop for a minute and determine whether the Bible should have 66 books or should it include the Apochrapha and the Bishop of Hermes. How do you determine that from a humanistic view?--Herb Evans
     
  17. Herb Evans

    Herb Evans New Member

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    I am KJO and I recommend the KJB. But that was not the point of my post to Keith. -- Herb Evans



    And does a "valid" version mean? Who decides? Are you a "Valid Versions Only?-- Herb Evans

    The question was , And when we find it, will you or Keith take up the challenge? [You did not mention the JW bible (NWT)].-- Herb Evans


    Again, the "valid" version thing! Of course, you get to decide which versions are valid and not any KJO. The only Bible that has not expired is the One that was originally inspired and has been preserved until today. Our Bible has not expired and we have it today. All you have to do is to list for us a half dozen of post KJB bible since the KJB that are inspired. -- Herb Evans
     
    #57 Herb Evans, Dec 5, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 5, 2006
  18. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    Luke 4:17-20
    (17) And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
    (18) The Spirit of the Lord [is] upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
    (19) To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
    (20) And he closed the book, and he gave [it] again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.


    I, like Roby would like to find this same passage written like he read it somewhere.
     
  19. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    He went into a synagogue & was handed a scroll from its library; most likely He had requested that specific scroll, & although Scripture doesn't say, it's unlikely He was just handed any ole scroll at random. And why wouldn't be a text in a SYNAGOGUE?
     
  20. Rufus_1611

    Rufus_1611 New Member

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    Thank you. I see you're referring to Luke 4:16 or thereabouts.
     
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