Is torturing prisoners Biblical?

There You Go Again!

You are truly a person that loves to judge others. I know you won't admit you judged me, but, read between the lines. Sometimes I am secular and a bit fleshly, but, I'm not perfect candadyyd, just forgiven. Didn't you remember He died for the sinner. I never pretended to be perfect, or all knowing....unlike you try to pass yourself as being?

Torture is necessary if it means keeping us safe....live with it; or move to Iran, and try to argue your liberal ways with them as they cut your head for having a thought that doesn't reflect Allah.

Pastor Paul

 

You only say that because you do not love your neighbor as yourself.

 

Then your expectations were wrong. I don't support torture and I'm conservative and I love America.

Torturing enemies makes America strong? Our enemies behead Americans and we consider it barbaric. How does it make America strong to become as barbaric as the enemy?

Since you've accused me of twisting your words in another thread, I want to make sure I understand what you're saying. Are you saying that the U.S. military speaks the very words of God? Because that's what it sounds like you're saying.

What if I showed you information that said that torture was ineffective? Would it change your opinion of what you think makes America strong? Here's a report that shows torture is ineffective.

From the linked article:

America won WWII and torture wasn't used. For some strange reason, we're using the interrogation programs and methods of the Soviet Union for our model. Here's a handy link for you. Doesn't it strike you as totally ridiculous that we're using the "Evil Empire", the poster-child for neverending hostility, as our model for freedom and security?

Charles C. Krulak and Joseph P. Hoar make these points in their op-ed, "It's Our Cage, Too: Torture Betrays Us and Breeds New Enemies." Krulak is a former commandant of the Marine Corps. Hoar is a former commander in chief of U.S. Central Command. They write of the "disastrous consequences" of the Bush administration's embrace of torture, saying it has:

Torture is ineffective, morally corrosive and a certain path to military defeat.

So, why on Earth does anybody who says that they love America say that this is something we should accept or approve? And why do Christians support torture?

 

I believe you said something about Jesus not rebuking Peter for using the sword to cut off the slave's ear. He clearly does when He tells him to stop and put his sword away.

I'm saying that Jesus didn't mean for the disciples to take literally His statement concerning selling their cloak to buy a sword (Luke 22:36). This is obvious when He tells them "it is enough" when they replied they had two swords. The disciples still didn't understand He was going to be arrested and crucified. Had He really wanted them all to have swords, two would not have been enough.

Jesus was saying that, whereas they lacked nothing when He sent them out the first time, things were going to be very dangerous from this point on.

peace to youraying:

 

I'm sure the same logic was used during the Spanish Inquisition.

The problem is, it doesn't keep us safe. It demeans us as human beings created in the image of God. And most importantly, it is contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Torture is evil. Christians should never participate in, nor condone, things that are evil, even if you believe it makes you personally safer.

peace to youraying:

 

My post is easy enough to quote:

Jesus didn't rebuke Peter for resorting to violence or failing to love his enemy. He rebuked Peter for trying to prevent Him from being taken prisoner and eventually crucified, because that was what Jesus had to do. To do otherwise would be to fulfill satan's plan, not God's plan.

I repeat:

 

How do you know? You don't, and neither do I. We have no idea what terrorist acts have been prevented by any means, torture or otherwise. I think it's safe to assume SOMETHING must be working, because we haven't had any events on the scale of the World Trade Center attack since then. No guarantees, of course, but I think it's a safe assumption.

 

But....

ROUND 2​

I am not torturing anyone...and I am not particpating in the torture of enemies. I agree with the principle only because there is nothing I can do to stop it. I also believe that our military has to do whatever is needed to fight an enemy that would do much worse to people like you and me if they are not defeated, or at least kept at arms length.

You say - "Christians should never participate in, nor condone, things that are evil" and I must ask, because I'd love to hear your opinion candadyjd: what about abortion. You are indirectly participating in abortion every day because you "have" to pay taxes. You are passively condoning abortion and the evil it represents, canadyjd. And like me, there is nothing you can do to stop our government from using your tax dollar to do this evil. An evil that's killed more human life than we could ever torture in this or any war combined.

What say you?!?!?!?!?!?

Pastor Paul

 

Matt 26:52 "Jesus said to him, 'Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword...."

That is a rebuke for resorting to violence. Yes, Peter resorted to violence to keep Jesus from being arrested, and yes, Jesus rebuked Peter for trying to prevent Him from fulfilling the Father's plan of salvation. But, that is also a rebuke for resorting to violence.

There are plenty of other passages that rebuke the disciples, and us, for not showing forgiveness and love toward their/our fellow man.

Torture is contrary to the teachings of Christ. Torture is evil. Christians should not participate in, nor condone, things that are evil.

peace to youraying:

 

I believe the prayers of the saints have kept this country safe since 9-11, not governments, and certainly not torture.

peace to youraying:

 

I stand corrected on the event. Thanks.

 

Wow!!

This is off topic. I will answer briefly, however. I believe abortion is evil and Christians should not participate in, nor condone abortion. The one exception I have is that if the woman's life is in danger, I don't believe she is obligated to endanger her life for the sake of the baby.

I also believe the government should stay out of people's lives as much as possible, as it often leads to oppression and abuse.

I am not sure, exactly, what you mean by tax dollars supporting abortions.

Regardless, Jesus told us to pay our taxes.

peace to youraying:

 

Is Rat Cheer anywhere near mouse holler?

peace to youraying:

 

No, Rat Cheer is Rat Cheer. You know, Oar Ear. As opposed to Oar Dare.

 

Do YOU pay taxes? Why?

 

Unfortunately, you are wrong. You are "participating in the torture of enemies", as I am, along with every U. S. taxpayer. This is the dark side of democracy and representative government. When our elected representatives do something, good or bad, they are doing it for us, on our behalf. So, when they torture, it on our behalf, in our place. We are paying for this torture. It is analogous to a contract murder. The person who pays the killer is just as responsible as the person who pulls the trigger.

This quote is hilarious because it is an example of the (il)logical contortions that you and others go through to portray themselves as being above the fray when they are actually hip-deep in mud (among other things). You are saying that "I'm not doing it, but it's all right if someone else does it for me."

You say that "there is nothing I can do to stop it", but have you done anything? Have you contacted your senators and congressmen to express your displeasure with torture? Have you written to the president to complain? Have you stood with other veterans who have protested the war in general? Just wonderin'.

Tim Reynolds

 

It took me awhile, but I finally got it. :laugh:

peace to youraying:

 

Render to the Big Man from Rome....

Render to Cesar what is his....I follow the laws brother. But, hate to see my taxes pay for the corruption running rampant inside this government, and paying for government operated [paid for] abortion clinics.

Pastor Paul

 

I got two cents to throw in here.

God permits governments to do all sorts of thing He doesn't permit individual Christians to do.

If I go next door to my neighbor and torture him into telling me where he put the gun he shot my dog with, God probably isn't going to be to happy with me (cops won't be either). It's not my place to do such.

If the government can find a man willing to torture an enemy into revealing where Osama is hiding (killed way more dogs than my innocent neighbor) I doubt God is going to care anymore now than he did when they cut off thumbs and toes back in the OT.

We believe it is barbaric to order the deaths of women and children, yet God ordered on more than one occasion.

A great many subjects aren't dealt with in depth with in scripture. Torture is one of them. We are told to respect the laws of our land.

The problem with that is that Americans ARE the lawmakers of our land. That is what our votes do. We DO get to decide what the law will be.

In the case of torture, my personal belief is that it gains little compared to the cost. I believe there are better ways of getting the info we need and I vote accordingly. If that make me a liberal, oh well, someone has to be one!

As far as this government's excuse that they are saving lives by torturing so called enemy combatants, my belief is that there are certain things worth dying for. Holding ourselves, as a country, to a higher standard than the Islamic barbarians my just be one of those reasons.

 

Get Ready to Answer to canadyjd

Great answer...in fact it follows what I've been saying. But you will have to answer to this canadyjd person, SO be prepared, I told you it was :tonofbricks: coming!

Pastor Paul