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Is working for Budweiser wrong???

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by cojosh, Dec 14, 2005.

  1. cojosh

    cojosh New Member

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    **********If the focus is on the ministry, as you say, I'm not sure how the member's employment with a beer company will hinder the ministry? People will gossip, won't they? I understand about the need to not give the appearance of sin, but working for a beer company doesn't make all of you intemperate, does it?***********

    Well, the ministry involves more than one person , so the importance of being in agreement should be emphasized.

    **********Your first post said you had 'some reservations'. Now you've said it's a 'strong disagreement'.

    Why?
    **************

    Disagreement concerning convictions and values.


    *************This may be a good opportunity for your group to shine a little light on other's tendencies to judge, huh? Is your concern more about being approved by people, or approved by God? Motes and beams...unless his employment is causing him to become a drunk, that job ought not to hinder your music ministry, unless you allow it to. ***********

    If I was concerned with what people thought about me I'd probably drink beer myself, but since I'm concerned with God's approval I thought I'd be careful who I yoke up with under the "ministry" banner! I have certain standards concerning the issue, apparently he has differnt standards. My question, will God bless to the fullest when we are in turmoil? Is it worth the problems it could cause? Could it be a stubbling block?

    *****IMHO, let the Bud employee stay. Those who turn up their noses because of a band member's place of employment probably wouldn't hear your message, anyway.******

    Maybe, maybe not....

    ********8What style music do you play? Who is your ministry targeted towards?********

    Very low-key melodic style, probably considered contemporary by some and folky to others. It's targeted towards anyone who will listen.
     
  2. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    I disagree.

    There may be honest ground for disagreement on whether a Christian should drink beer without getting drunk.

    But how can there be any question that is wrong to work for a company that supplies alcohol to many who abuse it? How can one justify taking money to facilitate an alcoholic, the destruction of families, drunk driving deaths, etc.?
     
  3. cojosh

    cojosh New Member

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    Scott J wrote******How can one justify taking money to facilitate an alcoholic, the destruction of families, drunk driving deaths, etc.? ********

    Yes, these are some questions that plague me. How could a Christian work there? :confused:
     
  4. James Flagg

    James Flagg Member
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    The same way one can justify working at AstroZeneca when they manufacture gallons of liquid Morphine. Are those people responsible for all of the morphine addicts?

    Is an employee of Anheuser-Busch in St. Louis responsible for an alcoholic or a drunk-driving death here in Texas?

    My dear, precious Lord; what on earth ever happened to personal responsibility???????
     
  5. James Flagg

    James Flagg Member
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    Well, not all Busch products are that bad. I do agree that most are indeed substandard, but I think that Michelob is a passable lager.
     
  6. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Alright, just what is the minimum percentage of a company's output that can be ethyl alcohol products? We know scripture does not tell us any such thing, but what is your idea, since you make such a claim?

    Buying gas(oline) is not a necessity. There is public transportation, often with electrical rail, or propane or hydrogen buses. If you live in a more rural area, you can get a horse and maybe a buggy and ride like the Amish, or you can literally walk 6 miles through 3 feet of snow, if necessary. If you are claiming that you cannot buy a product, or even work for the manufacturer of such a product, because some of the small amount of income you may furnish for that company may be used in an ungodly way, and such a person is more concerned about what the product or the job does for him, you do face that same correlation if you think gasoline is a “necessity.”
     
  7. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    :D
     
  8. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    I'll drink to that ! [​IMG]
     
  9. bapmom

    bapmom New Member

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    Alcott,

    are you claiming that Budweiser has another product besides alcohol?

    All I was saying is that there is a distinction between a company which sells food or gas, but also offers some alcoholic beverages, and a company that produces only alcoholic beverages.
     
  10. mioque

    mioque New Member

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    James Flagg
    Normally.
    Beer + Christianity = Monks = Excellent Beer
    No reason for our side to muck up that equation. ;)
     
  11. eyeball

    eyeball New Member

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    Keeping in mind the standards discussed above, it might be good to realize that the Anheuser-Busch corporation is not just the Budweiser brand. They own and operate numerous large theme parks (Sea World, Busch Gardens, Adventure Island, etc), metalworks, paper mills, farms, transporation concerns, real estate developers, and media production companies.

    cojosh, would employment in any of the above subsidiaries disqualify one for your band? They are are much part of A-B as the beer plants.
     
  12. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    I wasn't in my post to which you are referring.

    We both know you are evading my question as to what is the minimum percentage of a company's products that may be alcoholic beverages to be acceptable by your standards. Now someone has 'jumped' me on my next question if you ever answered that, pointing out that Anheiser-Busch is involved in many products. Nevertheless, since you made the claim of 'only product/small part of products,' answer the question about percentage.
     
  13. bapmom

    bapmom New Member

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    Alcott,

    why so argumentative? I thought I made myself clear. I don't have any percentage to put on a company, and I most certainly was not trying to evade your question.

    For one thing, Im not judging any company on any basis. I only said there was a distinction.

    Personally, I wouldn't work at a liquor store, who's main goal is to get alcohol out, nor would I work at Budweiser's, whose main goal is also to get alcohol out. Those are different than grocery stores, who's main goal is to sell food items.

    I don't think in percentages, so sorry, you aren't going to get one out of me.

    If you haven't read the whole thread, please realize that Im not sitting here judging any other person or company. I can only decide where my line is.
     
  14. Scott J

    Scott J Active Member
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    The same way one can justify working at AstroZeneca when they manufacture gallons of liquid Morphine. Are those people responsible for all of the morphine addicts? </font>[/QUOTE] The bulk of morphine is manufactured for a legitimate medical purpose. Beer is a drug that is intended for recreational consumption only.

    The medical use for beer is if you or your pet accidentally swallow anti-freeze. Our vet advised us to keep our dog drunk for 3 days to allow the alcohol to counteract the effects. It worked... but we found that our dog preferred vodka and koolaid.

    Yes.

    Not legally and I would never advocate such. Nor does the responsibility alleviate the person who actually consumes it one iota. But to produce something that is harmful when used as intended or knowing that it will be commonly abused is not morally right. Further, the most likely abusers/victims are young people.

    Guns are used to kill. But legitimate uses of guns exist not the least of which is the protection of person and property from criminals... or the ultimate concern of the founders- government oppression.

    But it is not just one death in Texas- that wouldn't be reasonable. Deaths involving alcohol are epidemic. The last statistic I saw said that much greater than half of violent crimes involve alcohol. There are diseases. Drunk driving... not to mention the millions of families and children destroyed to pay Bud workers make the company profitable.

    Indeed! The person who drinks is absolutely responsible... but that doesn't vindicate the one who supplies the alcohol.

    Do you think drug producers, suppliers, and dealers are behaving morally? The only real difference between them and a Bud employee is that our society has almost arbitrarily determined that the drug of alcohol should be legal while marijuanna, opium, heroin, cocaine, etc should not be.

    Health, welfare, and mortality problems related to alcohol are greater than those related to any of the drugs we have declared "illegal".
     
  15. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman Active Member

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    I am not sure I could, with good conscience, work for budweiser.

    1.) I don't support their goals.
    2.) I don't drink beer.
    3.) There isn't a plant near me.
     
  16. Shiloh

    Shiloh New Member

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    There shouldn't be any question to a real believer, NO. Habakkuk 2:15.....and many many other verses.
     
  17. cojosh

    cojosh New Member

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    *******If you live in a more rural area, you can get a horse and maybe a buggy and ride like the Amish, or you can literally walk 6 miles through 3 feet of snow, if necessary.*********

    I've always felt that it would be fun to live as the Amish! :D


    Well, I have some serious praying and thinking to do. The issue is settled in my mind, but how could I tell him in a loving way without giving him a feeling of rejection. This is his job! It's going to be difficult to explain it to him that he can't be part of the ministry because of his employment. At first, I thought that we just wouldn't invite him back, but that may do more damage.

    What now?
     
  18. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Okay, so you have a line, which makes a distinction, but there is no percentage involved, even though a company's main product cannot be a particular product, though you refuse to state how much of a product is necessary to be the main product. Being a 'numbers guy,' I don't think this type of logic could work for me.
     
  19. bapmom

    bapmom New Member

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    well Alcott,

    Im not asking for my kind of logic to "work" for you. It seems quite clear to me, I don't really understand why it seems so cloudy to you, but my conscience isn't guiding you in any way. Try reading what ScottJ just posted. I thought it was a very good post as well.
     
  20. bapmom

    bapmom New Member

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    cojosh,

    If this young man hasn't been a part of your band lately anyway, than perhaps he has no more interest in being in it.

    If he DOES want to start it up again, will he ask you about it?

    Another question I have is, are you the leader of the band and do you have the responsibility of taking on this kind of ultimate decision?

    If you really feel that you must say something to him about the issue, I suggest you be honest with him, but do so in the most loving manner possible. Let him know you do not intend this as a rejection of him personally, nor do you want this to come between your friendship. There are just sometimes when a ministry's reputation concerns have to be met, and this rises to a level where legitimate criticism can be levied against your band.
     
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