Is your church or pastor on the list?

Nobody but nobody has said that. We are saying to repent and turn from sin towards God. Are you saying that you did not repent and turn to God??? You still have all the sins you ever committed against you, so you need a Savour.

Are you saying you don't love your wife enough to not commit adultery against her, when you were still a sinner? Are you saying that you can help yourself, that you will have to commit adultery against her and God. Did you ever in your life "turn away" from adultery???? If you couldn't stop adultery, then I guess you are one of them that got saved while still committing adultery. I really don't think you believe that Npet;!!

So, you can even hate adultery, but can't stop. That is just plain silly.

 

I don't even know what you're talking about, Bob. What's with this obsession with adultery?

Do I believe someone may be addicted to adultery and is unable to quit on his own? Absolutely. You honestly don't know anyone like that? How about Bill Clinton? Okay, I doubt if Clinton sees it as a sin (or if he does, cares about it), and that illustrates my other point: If you don't recognize what you are doing is sin and hate it, you won't ever find out that you need Jesus.

Anyway, I've known of many people who were stuck in their sins, hated what they were doing, but were unable to stop on their own. Surely you know of people like that.

 

I didn't ask you about Bill Clinton, I ask you if you loved your wife enough before you were saved that you could keep from committing adultery against her and God??

Simple enough question. Reason I use adultery is because if a man is not on the rock, that is usually what will get him.

BBob,

 

????????

Ed

 

I didn't think this was a personal issue, but I never struggled with adultery. But I believe others do, and I also believe there are unsaved people out there who don't want to commit adultery but can't stop. But if they've come that far, I believe they WILL get saved and stop, because their conviction shows the Holy Spirit is working on them. Just my opinion.

 

Well, everyone should stop hitting on Bill Clinton. I don't agree that people can't stop. I hold Bill Clinton responsible for what he did.

It is not a personal issue as far as you are concerned. Just wanted you to give a answer to a hard question. You being a Calvinist and going against all of the top theologians in Calvinist surprises me. But it is what it is. I think you did not really give an honest answer, you just run around it. I say what I mean and mean what I say.

BBob,

 

I admit I don't know Calvinism perfectly, and I never studied Calvin, but at what point did I depart from Calvinism?

At what point did I fail to give an honest answer? I honestly (grin) have no idea what you mean.

 

John Calvin;.
IN WHAT SENSE IS REPENTANCE THE PRIOR CONDITION OF FORGIVENESS? a Now the hatred of sin, which is the beginning of repentance, first gives us access to the knowledge of Christ, who reveals himself to none but poor and afflicted sinners, who groan, toil, are heavy-laden, hunger, thirst, and pine away with sorrow and misery b(a) [ Isaiah 61:1-3; Matthew 11:5, 28; Luke 4:18]. Accordingly, we must strive toward repentance itself, devote ourselves to it throughout life, and pursue it to the very end if we would abide in Christ. b For he came to call sinners, but it was to repentance [cf. Matthew 9:13]. He was sent to bless the unworthy, but in order that every one may turn from his wickedness [ Acts 3:26; cf. Acts 5:31]. Scripture is full of such testimonies. For this reason, when God offers forgiveness of sins, he usually requires repentance of us in turn, implying that his mercy ought to be a cause for men to repent. He says, "Do judgment and righteousness, for salvation has come near." [ Isaiah 56:1 p.] Again, "A redeemer will come to Zion, and to those in Jacob who repent of their sins." [ Isaiah 59:20.] Again, "Seek the Lord while he can be found, call upon him while he is near; let the wicked man forsake his way and the unrighteousness of his thoughts; let him return to the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him." [ Isaiah 55:6-7 p.] Likewise, "Turn again, and repent, that your sins may be blotted out." [ Acts 3:19.] Yet we must note that this condition is not so laid down as if our repentance were the basis of our deserving pardon, but rather, because the Lord has determined to have pity on men to the end that they may repent, he indicates in what direction men should proceed if they wish to obtain grace. Accordingly, so long as we dwell in the prison house of our body we must continually contend with the defects of our corrupt nature, indeed with our own natural soul. a Plato sometimes says that the life of a philosopher is a meditation upon death; but we may more truly say that the life of a Christian man is a continual effort and exercise in the mortification of the flesh, till it is utterly slain, and God's Spirit reigns in us. Therefore, I think he has profited greatly who has learned to be very much displeased with himself, not so as to stick fast in this mire and progress no farther, but rather to hasten to God and yearn for him in order that, having been engrafted into the life and death of Christ, he may give attention to continual repentance. b Truly, they who are held by a real loathing of sin cannot do otherwise. For no one ever hates sin unless he has previously been seized with a love of righteousness. a This thought, as it was the simplest of all, so has it seemed to me to agree best with the truth of Scripture.

 

Well, I agree with this part 100%:

That's what it feels like to be made aware of your sinful condition and your inability to fix it. If we don't care about our sinful condition, we won't groan, we won't toil, and we won't be heavy-laden. If we could turn away from our sin on our own steam, we wouldn't groan, toil, be heavy-laden, either. It is only when you become aware of your sinfulness and the futility of trying to fix it that you reach that point of despair and find out that your only hope is Jesus. That's what makes the Gospel such good news.

 

Thats a start, continue to read Calvin;

Also, here is Spurgeon:

Spurgeon
This one is from Spurgeon's sermons, Volume II.
Turn Or Burn

I.In the first place, my hearers, let me endeavor to explain to you the nature of the turning here meant.....

Ah! My hearer, it is not thy promise of repentance that can save thee; it is not thy vow, it is not thy solemn declaration, it is not the tear that is dried more easily than the dew-drop by the sun; it is not the transient emotion of the heart, which constitues a real turning to God. There must be a true and actual abandonment of sin, and a turning unto righteousness in real act and deed in every day life. Do you say you are sorry, and repent, and yet go on from day to day, just as you always went? Will you now boy your heads, and say, "Lord, I Repent," and in a little while commit the same deeds again? If you do, your repentance is worse than nothing, and shall but make your destruction yet more sure; for he that voweth to his Maker, and doth not pay, hath committed another sin, in that he hath attempted to deceive the Almighty, and lie against God that made him. Repentance, to be true, to be evangelical, must be a repentance which really affects our outward conduct.

In the next place, repentance must be entire. How many will say, "Sir, I will renounce this sin and the other; but there are certain darling lusts which I must keep and hold." O sirs, in God's name let me tell you, it is not the giving up of one sin, nor fifty sins which is true repentance; it is the solemn renunciation of every sin. If thou dost harbor one of these accursed vipers in thy heart, they repentance is but a sham. If thou dost indulge in but one lust, and dost give up every other, that one lust, like one leak in a ship, will sink thy soul.

 

Bob, I'm going to take a screen shot of you telling me to read Calvin, print it, frame it, and hang it on my wall.

 

Don't you know we were Calvinist until 1893???

 

Good grief! I was being light hearted with another poster, Bob. I assign myself to none of your strange, hypothetic scenarios, and find them contrary to sound doctrine. The Gospel message I was saved by over 36 years ago is the same one I continue to believe, follow and teach to others as commanded by the Lord Jesus Christ.

Four of six people baptized at our church this past Sunday were those I won to Christ with the same Gospel message I was saved by 36 years ago. In August, there were four others souls won who came to Christ through the same message I was saved by 36 years ago. All of them are faithful attending members and are even winning other family members. God has blessed the message of SALVATION by GRACE without works that Paul, John, Peter, and the Lord Jesus, preached. In discipling these saved I teach them to obey God and do works that are fitting for a child of God. They hear sound Bible preaching every week from a spirit-filled Pastor and are growing in Christ, not perfect but growing.

You told me in an earlier post--"People like you there is no peace." You seem to be good at telling people what they feel. I "feel" just fine, Bob. I have the joy of the Lord in my heart!! And a "peace that passeth all understanding". God is using this sinner for His Glory!! I feel just GREAT!!!!That's how I feel, Bob.

I am in GOD'S MAJORITY!

Carrierwave~

 

Good for you, its hard to pick up on in your posts is why I said what I did. I didn't mean peace in yourself but peace between you and others and what I pick up by your posts you don't seem to be too much at peace.

I see, you did not answer any of the question, but that is ok. I know you don't believe what the sound doctrine that I post, but that is your problem, not mine. Glad you are saving so many, you need to let Christ save a few also. I personally give the Lord the credit for saving people. I just preach the word. According to scripture there was one who took credit one time and was not allowed to cross over into the promised land.

BBob,

 

"Glad you are saving so many, you need to let Christ save a few also. I personally give the Lord the credit for saving people. I just preach the word. According to scripture there was one who took credit one time and was not allowed to cross over into the promised land."

Except you don't read very well; are you wearing your glasses now?

"God is using this sinner for His Glory!!"

Carrierwave~

According to scripture there was a man once who went down to the temple in his pride and returned unjustified who thought he was better than other men. Have a nice eternity--Bob:wavey:

 

BBob (Quote)

"Do you see that you are almost alone in your belief of not turning from sin?"

No, I don't, -- However you should feel in real good company, Bob :wavey:

Spencer W. Kimball, the 12th President of the Latter Day Saints Church, declared;

"There is one crucial test of repentance. This is abandonment of the sin" (The Miracle of Forgiveness, p.163. Also cited in Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual: Religion 231 and 232, p.40).


Page 67 of the LDS Church manual Gospel Fundamentals insists,

"Our Father in heaven does not sin, and He does not allow people who sin to live with Him. To live with Him, we must repent of our sins. To repent means to feel sorry for our sins and stop doing them."


Latter Day Saints: Doctrine and Covenants 58:42,43:

"Behold, he who has repented of his sins, the same is forgiven, and I, the Lord, remember them no more. By this ye may know if a man repenteth of his sins--behold, he will confess them and forsake them."


The LDS Church manual Gospel Principles states,

"To make our repentance complete we must keep the commandments of the Lord" (1992 ed., p.125).


Jehovah's Witnesses AWAKE!

"The question is NOT are we going door-to-door and preaching about a government by 13 men in Brooklyn or 144,000 Jehovah's Witnesses, but whether or not we have repented of our sins and become born again!


Church of Christ 100 Rena Road Van Buren Arkansas 72956; The Gospel Plan of Salvation

"Hear the gospel, believe it, repent of your sins, call on the name of Christ, and be immersed in water. These are all New Testament requirements for the forgiveness of all your past sins."

Yes, Bob--You are in good company and the list keeps growing bigger!! Looks like nearly everyone of the "ages" agrees with you!

However, Jesus said:

Luk 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

Have a nice eternity--Bob
:wavey:

 

Lets see, four of them are LDS and Church of Christ and J.W., Too bad that people like that has more sense than you do, about "repentance".

I guess they at least understood you have to repent and turn from sin, which is just plain old horse sense.

But don't forget these who believe as I do and whose company I am in.

John Calvin;.
IN WHAT SENSE IS REPENTANCE THE PRIOR CONDITION OF FORGIVENESS? a Now the hatred of sin, which is the beginning of repentance, first gives us access to the knowledge of Christ, who reveals himself to none but poor and afflicted sinners, who groan, toil, are heavy-laden, hunger, thirst, and pine away with sorrow and misery b(a) [ Isaiah 61:1-3; Matthew 11:5, 28; Luke 4:18]. Accordingly, we must strive toward repentance itself, devote ourselves to it throughout life, and pursue it to the very end if we would abide in Christ. b For he came to call sinners, but it was to repentance [cf. Matthew 9:13]. He was sent to bless the unworthy, but in order that every one may turn from his wickedness [ Acts 3:26; cf. Acts 5:31]. Scripture is full of such testimonies. For this reason, when God offers forgiveness of sins, he usually requires repentance of us in turn, implying that his mercy ought to be a cause for men to repent. He says, "Do judgment and righteousness, for salvation has come near." [ Isaiah 56:1 p.] Again, "A redeemer will come to Zion, and to those in Jacob who repent of their sins." [ Isaiah 59:20.] Again, "Seek the Lord while he can be found, call upon him while he is near; let the wicked man forsake his way and the unrighteousness of his thoughts; let him return to the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him." [ Isaiah 55:6-7 p.] Likewise, "Turn again, and repent, that your sins may be blotted out." [ Acts 3:19.] Yet we must note that this condition is not so laid down as if our repentance were the basis of our deserving pardon, but rather, because the Lord has determined to have pity on men to the end that they may repent, he indicates in what direction men should proceed if they wish to obtain grace. Accordingly, so long as we dwell in the prison house of our body we must continually contend with the defects of our corrupt nature, indeed with our own natural soul. a Plato sometimes says that the life of a philosopher is a meditation upon death; but we may more truly say that the life of a Christian man is a continual effort and exercise in the mortification of the flesh, till it is utterly slain, and God's Spirit reigns in us. Therefore, I think he has profited greatly who has learned to be very much displeased with himself, not so as to stick fast in this mire and progress no farther, but rather to hasten to God and yearn for him in order that, having been engrafted into the life and death of Christ, he may give attention to continual repentance. b Truly, they who are held by a real loathing of sin cannot do otherwise. For no one ever hates sin unless he has previously been seized with a love of righteousness. a This thought, as it was the simplest of all, so has it seemed to me to agree best with the truth of Scripture.(


Continued on next page;

 

Spurgeon
This one is from Spurgeon's sermons, Volume II.
Turn Or Burn

I.In the first place, my hearers, let me endeavor to explain to you the nature of the turning here meant.....

Ah! My hearer, it is not thy promise of repentance that can save thee; it is not thy vow, it is not thy solemn declaration, it is not the tear that is dried more easily than the dew-drop by the sun; it is not the transient emotion of the heart, which constitues a real turning to God. There must be a true and actual abandonment of sin, and a turning unto righteousness in real act and deed in every day life. Do you say you are sorry, and repent, and yet go on from day to day, just as you always went? Will you now boy your heads, and say, "Lord, I Repent," and in a little while commit the same deeds again? If you do, your repentance is worse than nothing, and shall but make your destruction yet more sure; for he that voweth to his Maker, and doth not pay, hath committed another sin, in that he hath attempted to deceive the Almighty, and lie against God that made him. Repentance, to be true, to be evangelical, must be a repentance which really affects our outward conduct.

In the next place, repentance must be entire. How many will say, "Sir, I will renounce this sin and the other; but there are certain darling lusts which I must keep and hold." O sirs, in God's name let me tell you, it is not the giving up of one sin, nor fifty sins which is true repentance; it is the solemn renunciation of every sin. If thou dost harbor one of these accursed vipers in thy heart, they repentance is but a sham. If thou dost indulge in but one lust, and dost give up every other, that one lust, like one leak in a ship, will sink thy soul.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------



George Whitefield : Repentance.

(Since that was such a long post up there, I will select small excepts to show that Whitefield also taught repentance to mean a forsaking of sin.)

" You, therefore, who have been sweaeres and cursers; you, who have been harlots and drunkards; you, who have been thieves and robbers; you, who have hitherto followed the sinful pleasures and diversions of life, let me beseech you, by the mercies of God in Christ Jesus, that you would no longer continue therein, but that you would forsake your evil ways, and turn unto the Lord. For he waits to be grascious to you, he is ready, he is willing to pardon you of all your sins: But do not expect Christ to pardon you of sin when you rin to it, and will not abstain from coplying with the temptations. But if you will be persuaded to absstain from evil and choose the good, to return to the Lord and repent of your wickedness, he has promised he will abundantly pardon you, he will heal your backslidings, and will love you freely. Resolve now this day to have done with your sins FOREVER; let your old ways and you be separated; you must resolve against it, for there can be no true repentance without a resolution to forsake it.... But then take that you do not ground your resolutions on your own strength, but in the strenght of the Lord Jesus Christ. He is the way, he is the truth, he is the life; without his assistance, you can do nothing, but through his grace strengthening thee, thou wilt be enabled to do all things.



John Wesley's therapeutic understanding of salvation
Encounter, Summer 2002 by Ayers, Jeremy
<< Page 1 Continued from page 11. Previous | Next
.In "On Working Out Our Own Salvation," Wesley expands the meaning of repentance to include a host of attitudes and activities (e.g., restitution, seeking forgiveness, and almsgiving).68 This illustrates, I think, that repentance serves as the threshold, or turning point, from sinfulness to godliness. Accordingly, it involves much more than a single act - it involves a transformative process of time. Of course, any "piercing sense of our guilt" originates from God and is indicative of the priority of grace. And certainly, the conviction of our state will grow as we respond. But toward what does this conviction lead?
In terms of the ordo salutis, the answer is justification. "`But must not we put off the filthy rags of our own righteousness before we can put on the spotless righteousness of Christ?' Certainly we must; that is, in plain terms, we must 'repent' before we can `believe the gospel."69 Undoubtedly, problems arise in describing justifying faith as a free gift while at the same time making repen-tance a prerequisite to that faith. Wesley solves this issue by declaring faith the only immediate necessity to justification, with repentance serving as a remote necessity. "Therefore both repentance and fruits meet for repentance are in some sense necessary to justification."70 As Outler's annotation to this line explains, "Else-where, Wesley stresses repentance as the normal prepatory state for the reception of justifying faith and, in that sense, `necessary."'71 We can avoid some of the potential theological impasses associated with this concept of repentance preceding faith by remembering that repentance is essentially knowledge, a gracious epistemological reve-lation of one's condition which orients one toward acceptance (belief and trust) of God's justifying provision in Christ. And in this light, repentance logically belongs before faith because one must first be convicted of sin before receiving the remedy for it.

Westminster Confession of Faith
What is repentance? Let me read to you from the Westminster Confession of Faith, a document that comes to us from the seventeenth century: "By [repentance] a sinner, out of the sight and sense not only of the danger, but also of the filthiness and odiousness of his sins, as contrary to the holy nature and righteous law of God; and upon the apprehension of his mercy in Christ to such as are penitent, so grieves for, and hates his sins, as to turn from them all unto God, purposing and endeavoring to walk with him in all the ways of his commandments. . . yet [repentance] is of such necessity to all sinners, that none may expect pardon without it. As there is no sin so small that it deserves damnation; so there is no sin so great that it can bring damnation upon those who truly repent. Men ought not to content themselves with a general repentance, but it is every man's duty to endeavor to repent of his particular sins, particularly" (Westminster Confession of Faith, chapter XV, sections II, III, IV).

 

Human works, you got it right Bob. The common thread of all false salvation religion.

(Titus 3:5) "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;"

 

BBob (Quote)"But don't forget these who believe as I do and whose company I am in."

Oh, we won't forget, Bob--:

Here's your hero Calvin, who believes as you do Bob, and whose company you are in, the great "repenter" of your faith:

Calvin wrote in a letter, "Servetus lately wrote to me... He takes it upon him to come hither, if it be agreeable to me. But I am unwilling to pledge my word for his safety, for if he shall come, I shall never permit him to depart alive, provided my authority be of any avail."

"While in Geneva, Servetus made the mistake of attending church on Sunday where he was recognized and arrested. It was on Calvin's information to the magistracy that Servetus was put in prison, which fact Calvin did not deny. The trial lasted over two months and Calvin himself drew up a document of thirty-nine accusations against Servetus.On the way to the stake, Servetus besought God to pardon his accusers. On account of the use of green oak-wood, Servetus suffered for half an hour. His last words were: "Jesus Christ, thou Son of the eternal God, have mercy on me!" At twelve noon on October 27, 1553, Servetus passed into his eternal destiny. Nine years afterward, Calvin still justified his actions."

"The strongest recorded statement from Calvin on the Servetus affair is a 1561 letter from Calvin to the Marquis Paet, high chamberlain to the King of Navarre, in which he says intolerantly:

"Honour, glory, and riches shall be the reward of your pains; but above all, do not fail to rid the country of those scoundrels, who stir up the people to revolt against us. Such monsters should be exterminated, as I have exterminated Michael Servetus the Spaniard."

"The respected Lutheran historian, Mosheim (1694-1755), judged in favor of Servetus. The historian Gibbon remarked: "he was more deeply scandalized at the single execution of Servetus than at the hecatombs which have blazed in the Auto da Fes of Spain and Portugal. The zeal of Calvin seems to have been envenomed by personal malice, and perhaps envy."
"A man who would burn another man at the stake for disagreeing with him doctrinally is not a man to be emulated or followed or admired." (History of Calvin and Calvinism by Zygmund Dobbs)

Too bad people (sheeple) don't have enough "horse sense" to reject this coward and murderer. Right, Bob?

1Jo 3:15 "Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him."

Have a nice eternity, Bob

Carrierwave~