Islam trying to be the worlds pariah

(And remember) when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then unto Me ye will (all) return, and I shall judge between you as to that wherein ye used to differ.

 

Here is a discussion between two Muslim women about whether or not the Koran is anti-woman which might be a bit enlightening to this discussion, how Muslim women interpret the Koran, and how that interpretation of the Koran has been put into practice to protect the human rights of Muslim women

 

CHurch Mouse - Again, no one is saying it is a "good" book. What we ARE saying is, spreading hate and acting like they act is NOT a good thing.

The more you rant and rave, the more you look like what you are condemning.

 

Answer these question with a yes or no:

1. Regardless of the historical past of Islam, and the current state of radical Islam, have you not been shown evidence that there are Muslims who no longer wish to interpret their Koran in an extremists fashion, who want to embrace the western ideas of pluralism, and leave terrorism behind?

2. Is this a good thing for them to embrace western pluralism and leave terrorism and extremism behind that should be encouraged?

One does not have to accept the Koran or Islam in order to want Muslims to become more moderate in their understanding of their religion. Who knows? With them opening up to the western ideals of pluralism, it might even open up more opportunities for us to witness to them. It is certainly less likely to happen as long as they cling to an extremists, supremecist view of the Koran. Why not encourage moderation for the sake of our kids and for the sake of opening up opportunities to witness to them?

Joseph Botwinick

 

Isn't what happened in the crusades a good blueprint on how we just flailed away at each other? ..in the beginning we had energy and purpose but by the end ,both sides were exhausted from the bloodletting. So is that the choice to go down that road that ends in major conflagration..I think we would win militarily but would we really win? if the terrorist war of attrition continues ,again my point about the exhaustion of bloodletting.

These new Reformationist or Rebels are fledglings
if anything they will inspire the new generation
of Muslims that will need a generation to reform
the Killer bee side of their religion and It must
be them...we can quietly support and pray for them
but it is best it does not have a christian face to it, because of the past(crusades).

They are definitely the underdogs but so were other reformers and rebels who spoke out against
the hijacking of their religion by the powerful.

Ms.Manji is among company such as Martin Luther
and she is speaking truth to power and they don't
like it and so she must die...sounds familiar.

Its about Reformation for this religion its their
last and only chance as the last resort before war
because people are loaded for bear to forget last
resorts and go ahead with the war and swallow up all muslims.

A reformed Muslim religion means we can be neighbors in peace and it also means the gospel
gets more readily accepted ,instead of shut down
from the get go.

I am not focused on the jot and tidls(?) of the
Koran but I am focused on the reformers interpretation of their religion to bring it back
into critical thinking and beauty ..instead of
knee jerk reactions brought on by fascist style
inmans and automatons to just carry out death and
destruction without question. I will not pretend and say that this will be a peaceful reformation
it will be a violent reformation a civl war.imho

The reformers must be encouraged and given a chance.

This from USA today
http://www.muslim-refusenik.com/news/usatoday-05-06-20.html

 

The Koran says that it is okay to beat your wife. However, the lot of you are saying that there is nothing wrong with the Koran but it is the way that it is twisted--but the Koran is obvious that you can beat your wife. You will never know for sure unless you move to a pure Islamic state like Algeria, will you?

So much for the religious left trying to deal with human rights abuse outside of Christianity. No wonder the Germans could say that it was their nation and their laws allowed for the execution of Jews who were a drag on Germany. Islam can say that Algeria is their nation and their Koran allows for the husband to beat the wife and the American liberals said that there was nothing wrong with the Koran.

 

Yes or No?

Joseph Botwinick

 

When the Koran says that it is okay to beat your wife, how does one say that he no longer wishes to interpret his Koran in an extremist fashion but wants to embrace the western ideas of pluralism and leave terrorism behind? Does he say, well I will only beat my wife when she needs it and then only on Sunday? Etc., etc., etc.

The answer is to discard the Koran and establish secular states in the Arab League much as Turkey has. As long as the Koran rules, a correct interpretation of the Koran is that one can beat his wife. It is a sick book that deserves to be discarded. You cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. The Koran is a sow's ear.

 

Yes or No?

Joseph Botwinick </font>[/QUOTE]Answer the Questions: Yes or No?

Joseph Botwinick

 

Right on, CMG.

 

When the Bible says that it is okay to stone an unruly son to death, how does one say that he no longer wishes to interpret his Bible in an extremist fashion but wants to embrace the western ideas of pluralism and leave terrorism behind? Does he say, well I will only kill my son when he needs it and then only on Sunday? Etc., etc., etc.

Does that make the point clearer?

 

Weak argument, MP. Jesus gave us an example about stoning - remember? He who is without sin cast the first stone?

Mohammed also gave us an example about how to deal with others. Behead them.

http://www.booklocker.com/books/1413.html

 

Why is it that the religious left wants to bring up rules that dealt with only theocratic Israel and impose them on modernday Christianity? Or why is it that the religious left wants to equate theocratic Israel with modernday Koranic teachings?

 

Yes or No?

Joseph Botwinick </font>[/QUOTE]Answer the Questions: Yes or No?

Joseph Botwinick </font>[/QUOTE]I am hardly the religious left. Answer the questions. Yes or No?

Joseph Botwinick

 

It seems to me almost everyone has made some valid points in this thread.It seems our nature ,to judge false doctrine and certain groups of people with differing yard sticks.Is it proper to teach our youth that Islam is a religion of beauty and peace?Reformed Islam?Joseph,thank you for your opinion,by the way I was not taking aim at you.How many of you actually beleive the crusades were carried out by true beleivers?

 

With all due respect, the issue about the crusades is not if the people were true believers but if The Holy Bible justifies the Crusades. It doesn't, of course.

But the Koran says that it is okay to beat your wife, and I listed many other questionable statement from the Koran. The seeds of Islamic abuse of human rights are built into the Koran, which justifies human rights abuse. There are no human rights in the Arab League because the Koran teaches human rights abuse.

The Holy Bible does not tolerate human rights abuse and is the basis for human rights wherever man have accepted Jesus.

 

I only asked the ? about the crusades because,a number of people have used the word we did this or that in regard to the crusades.I didn't mean there were not any beleivers,caught up in those wars,surely there was.It's lining up true christianity with the Byzantine empire that makes me wonder about the "we".

 

All Terrorists are Muslim,
All Muslim's are NOT Terrorists.

This is a war on Islamic Extremists,
not on the Muslim people.

 

Many terrorists are Muslims, but not all are. Some terrorists are Americans (Timothy McVeigh), some are Jewish (Kach Organization), some were Germans (Nazis), etc...

Other than that, I totally agree with you.

Joseph Botwinick

 

Tater did you go to the web page listed by Church mouse. It is the Koran that teaches to hate. not all are terrorist but that is the teaching. I believe most hate americans and anyone else who is not islamic.

Have you read the Koran or do you just have it?