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Featured Isn't it our Christian duty to support the Second Amendment?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by robertguwapito, Feb 29, 2012.

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  1. robertguwapito

    robertguwapito New Member

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    Guns equals freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom from persecution. If we can travel back more than two hundred years ago and ask our Founding Fathers, they would probably say that it is a Christian duty to do so.

    What do you think? :thumbsup:
     
    #1 robertguwapito, Feb 29, 2012
  2. Squidward

    Squidward Member

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    I fully support the second ammendment but I see no Christian obligation or duty to support it. That's more of a personal issue.
     
    #2 Squidward, Feb 29, 2012
  3. Ed B

    Ed B Member

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    I totally agree. I support the 2nd admendment and I own many guns. However, I don't see how this is a Christian issue.
     
    #3 Ed B, Feb 29, 2012
  4. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple Active Member

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    "Isn't it our Christian duty to support the Second Amendment?"

    No, it is not. That is the flesh speaking "a way that seems right to a man", but is not His way.

    Jesus' words are more important than "founding fathers words" to the true believer.

    Jesus did not say "If you are persecuted for my namesake, get a gun."

    Jesus said deny yourself to become like Him.

    He said to love, not kill.

    Our weapons of warfare are not carnal, a gun is.

    Put on the helmet of salvation, carry the sword of the Spirit, His word.

    Carry the shield of faith, girt the loins wth truth, wear the breastplate of righteousness.

    "And they overcame him (Satan) by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."
     
    #4 plain_n_simple, Feb 29, 2012
  5. robertguwapito

    robertguwapito New Member

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    But, if a Christian were faced only with two choices--to support or not support the Second Amendment--what answer should come naturally? :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #5 robertguwapito, Feb 29, 2012
  6. HAMel

    HAMel Well-Known Member
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    Then said he to them, But now, he that has a purse, let him take it, and likewise his money: and he that has no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.

    Luke 22:36


    plain_n_simple, someone comes through my door at 2:30 AM flying high on meth he becomes "fair game". If he survives There will be no long drawn out court drama followed with a long and drawn out prison sentence, on the tax-payers dime.
     
    #6 HAMel, Feb 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 29, 2012
  7. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Christ did not teach pacifism. In both the old and the new testaments the bible teaches that man are not only to defend themselves but also to defend those whom God has given them responsibility over.

    Exodus 22:2-3 tells us "If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed. He should make full restitution; if he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft."

    In Proverbs 25:26 we read that "A righteous man who falters before the wicked is like a murky spring and a polluted well." Certainly, we would be faltering before the wicked if we chose to be unarmed and unable to resist an assailant who might be threatening our life. In other words, we have no right to hand over our life which is a gift from God to the unrighteous. It is a serious mistake to equate a civilized society with one in which the decent people are doormats for the evil to trample on.

    We must also consider what Christ told his disciples in his last hours with them: "...But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a sack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one" (Luke 22:36).

    Years after Pentecost, Paul wrote in a letter to Timothy "But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever" (1 Tim. 5:8). This passage applies to our subject because it would be absurd to buy a house, furnish it with food and facilities for one's family, and then refuse to install locks and provide the means to protect the family and the property. Likewise it would be absurd not to take, if necessary, the life of a night-time thief to protect the members of the family (Exodus 22:2-3).

    The wisdom of the framers of the Constitution is consistent with the lessons of the Bible. Instruments of defense should be dispersed throughout the nation, in the hands of its citizens. In a godly country, righteousness governs each man through the Holy Spirit working within. The government has no cause to want a monopoly of force; the government that desires such a monopoly is a threat to the lives, liberty and property of its citizens.

    (From http://gunowners.org/fs9902.htm)
     
    #7 TCassidy, Feb 29, 2012
  8. robertguwapito

    robertguwapito New Member

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    Hamel, are you saying that it is a Christian's duty not to resist deadly violent crime? :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #8 robertguwapito, Feb 29, 2012
  9. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple Active Member

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    Mr Cassidy makes a common mistake of refering to the old covenant to support taking life. The old is done away with on this teaching, God said "listen to my Son." the new covenant. The Devil, came to steal, to kill, and to destroy. Satan works through men carrying guns.
     
    #9 plain_n_simple, Feb 29, 2012
  10. HAMel

    HAMel Well-Known Member
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    Hamel, are you saying that it is a Christian's duty not to resist deadly violent crime?

    It is a Christian's duty to do whatever is available to stop the bad guy! A .45 ACP does a great job of this followed with either a .12 or .20 gauge shotgun loaded with "00" Buck.

    I can only assume those who take exception to being armed to protect themselves and/or their family never faced a juiced up and highly motivated North Vietnamese armed with an AK-47.
     
    #10 HAMel, Feb 29, 2012
  11. robertguwapito

    robertguwapito New Member

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    Plain n Simple, are you saying that self-defense is not valid in the New Testament? :thumbsup:
     
    #11 robertguwapito, Feb 29, 2012
  12. Arbo

    Arbo Active Member
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    Classy.

    So the Devil's using every police officer, every individual who protects himself and his family, and every member of the military? Nope. Don't buy it.
     
    #12 Arbo, Feb 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 29, 2012
  13. 12strings

    12strings Active Member

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    I would agree that this is a personal, not a Christian issue. I would think a natural response would be in support of it only because it is a liberty issue, not necessisarily a gun issue.

    However, I don't own a gun, and if someone breaks into my house and kills me and my wife, we will go to heaven. If they broke in and I killed them, they will likely go to hell. I'm not saying it is ungodly to protect your family with violent force, as I would probalby still attempt to do so, even without a gun (I have a big knife)...but it is something to think about.
     
    #13 12strings, Feb 29, 2012
  14. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ New Member

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    Well put. I agree.

    I am 55 years old and I have never owned a gun. I have no plans of getting one.
     
    #14 Alive in Christ, Feb 29, 2012
  15. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus Well-Known Member
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    Always good to see new posters starting off with non-controversial topics...

    Nope.

    Nope.

    Nope, prove it...there is more than enough documentation from the Founders on this, find it and prove it. I say they don't link the 2nd Amendment and Christian duty.

    I think Jesus calls us to a life of non-violence. I think guns are fine tools but I don't own any (yes I clearly am a pansy) because we have little children and they aren't a good idea for a home imho. As a ministry leader we don't let guns in our facility and ask our security teams to not carry them. Guns are perfectly fine and I'm all for citizens being able to responsibly own guns. I have, and will continue, to defend a broad interpretation of the 2nd Amendment. However I challenge you to show me where the local militia is and how owning a fully automatic H&K MP5 is a good idea and necessary for hunting. There is an aspect of family heritage to guns, but I find the argument that we should allow citizens to own military grade weapons.

    In the end we are called to violence or hospitality by the example Jesus and the NT teachings?
     
    #15 preachinjesus, Feb 29, 2012
  16. robertguwapito

    robertguwapito New Member

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    Well, if it weren't for the lots of muskets which our forefathers had in their hands, would we still not be a British colony?

    (I hear, England is pretty much atheistic, except for the hundreds of Islamic mosques which are dotting the country. There's one sprouting every minute.)
     
    #16 robertguwapito, Feb 29, 2012
  17. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple Active Member

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    Follow who you want.
     
    #17 plain_n_simple, Feb 29, 2012
  18. robertguwapito

    robertguwapito New Member

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    to plain n simple...

    Yes, I will follow what I want, and what I want is what is natural and sensible. :smilewinkgrin:

    "He that suffers his life to be taken from him by one that hath no authority for that purpose, when he might preserve it by defense, incurs the Guilt of self murder since God hath enjoined him to seek the continuance of his life, and Nature itself teaches every creature to defend itself." (A sermon given in Philadelphia in 1747)
     
    #18 robertguwapito, Feb 29, 2012
  19. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    So you think Jesus was lying when He said "...But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a sack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one" (Luke 22:36)?
     
    #19 TCassidy, Feb 29, 2012
  20. David Lamb

    David Lamb Active Member

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    My answer is a definite "No", because:

    1. By no means all Christians are American citizens.
    2. Guns do not equal freedom of speech, freedom of religion, freedom from persecution. There were far more guns around in this country at times when there was not freedom of religion, when there was widespread persecution of Christians, than there is now.
     
    #20 David Lamb, Mar 1, 2012
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