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It may be nonsense, but it is worth a bag of popcorn

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Phillip, Nov 18, 2004.

  1. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    --------------------------------------------------
    Michelle:

    No, based upon his fruits, 'he is not yet saved.' He talks the talk but only part of it, but does not walk the walk, only walks part of it. He sends souls to the dens of wolves and he also yolks himself and others with unbelievers - can two walk together unless they be agreed?. This is not a good fruit, but a very bad one.
    --------------------------------------------------


    Well, if you all didn't have the problem of understanding plain English words, and context, we would be debating this. I can tell that these men are not yet saved, and so can you. Will they be someday? I have no idea. Will they go to hell? I have no idea. ONly this God knows. But I do know based upon their fruits, that they are NOW NOT SAVED.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  2. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    Again, another instance of YOU not answering questions asked you, but, rather, trying to deflect. I perfectly understand English and context. I sincerely doubt you have a full grasp on the subject. It was my minor in college. They are saved, Michelle. YOU are incorrect. YOU KNOW NOTHING OF THE SORT concerning their salvation. Pharisee!
     
  3. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    --------------------------------------------------
    But (Bob asks) WHERE does Scripture say we can determine the salvation of an individual?

    By their fruit (actions) we can know them and what kind of actions they do. But can we tell their soul's relation with God by their actions?
    --------------------------------------------------

    You answered it quite well in the above. The key is "know them" . Know who? Those who are of God. We are only God's once we are saved. By their fruits you shall know them, that is we know those who are saved. Therefore, we also know those who are not saved. Their fruits will show forth.


    2 Cor. 6

    11. O ye Corinthians, our mouth is open unto you, our heart is enlarged.
    12. Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.
    13. Now for a recompence in the same, (I speak as unto my children,) be ye also enlarged.
    14. Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
    15. And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
    16. And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
    17. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
    18. And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.


    It is NOT POSSIBLE for those who are saved and indwelt by the Holy Spirit of God to yolk with unbelievers, nor to send others to them. It is NOT POSSIBLE, for a saved person to claim that ALL RELIGIONS have the same God, for the truth is:

    John 14

    5. Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way?
    6. Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
    7. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
    8. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
    9. Jesus saith unto him, have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
    10. Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
    11. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
    12. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
    13. And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
    14. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
    15. If ye love me, keep my commandments.
    16. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
    17. Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
    18. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.


    --------------------------------------------------
    If that were so, I would say that spreading the vile her**y of KJVonly would be clear indication that a person was not born again.

    How does that feel? Of course, you would object. Why? I cannot know your heart. You might truly be "born again" and just terribly confused in doctrine.

    Give people a break and QUIT JUDGING FALSELY

    --------------------------------------------------

    No, I don't judge falsely, but scripturally. The scriptures do the judging.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  4. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill New Member

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    Michelle sometimes you break my heart. I will pray for you.
     
  5. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    Plain Old Bill,


    You have been very kind to me, and I very much appreciate that, and it seems to be a rare quality these days. I am sorry that I have broken your heart. I by no means mean to break anyone's heart. If I have broken your heart, because I share the scriptural truth about these men, I am sorry, but sometimes the truth sometimes hurts, ecspecially when we are faced with something like this. No one wants to believe they have been decieved. Believe me, I have been there. It isn't a good feeling, but so much is learned from it when one comes out of it. I praise the Lord he has been so good to show us all these things in the scriptures, for the days we are living in, and those that are to come and has given us the protection in HIS WORDS OF TRUTH if we believe and abide in them.

    I always welcome the prayers of other brothers and sisters, as I also keep them in my prayers. I also keep those who are not, in my prayers, that they also will be saved. I will include these two men. This has shown me, through the sharing of this truth with you all that I have neglected to pray for them. I will start keeping them also in my prayers and I thank the Lord for showing me this truth about my neglect concerning this.


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  6. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    I apologize for confusing you Tony, with AVL, and I apologize to you AVL for confusing you with Tony. Thank you for clearing that up.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  7. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    Michelle says:

    "It is NOT POSSIBLE for those who are saved and indwelt by the Holy Spirit of God to yolk with unbelievers, nor to send others to them. It is NOT POSSIBLE, for a saved person to claim that ALL RELIGIONS have the same God"

    AVL1984: Michelle, you have not proven that it is not possible for those who are saved and indwelt by the Holy Spirit to yoke together with unbelievers. The sad fact is that this happens all of the time. Saved people marry unsaved people, saved people become business partners with unsaved people, etc. Your interpretation of scriptures is incorrect. The Lord does indeed say not to, but this is not always followed by Christians. As well, it IS indeed possible for truly saved people to say that all religions have the same God. Many are not Bible scholars, nor do they grow in their spiritual life beyond an infantile stage. This does not negate their salvation. Nor does one who has yoked with an unbeliever have their salvation negated. You really do need to learn how to rightly divide the Word of God and quit inserting your own personal interpretation on it.
     
  8. AVL1984

    AVL1984 <img src=../ubb/avl1984.jpg>

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    Apology accepted, Michelle. We all make mistakes.
     
  9. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper Active Member

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    I've not read the soap opera and probably won't due to time constraints. However Michelle, from what I have read on this thread, you have a partial understanding of what a persons "fruits" consist of.

    They consist of a lot more than just our actions. Fruit consists of what God does with our actions.

    Case in point would be my neighbors up the street, where my youngest spends half her time. Lovely Christian couple. They weren't raised in the church although the husbands family belonged to the Methodist faith. They have made their mistakes and are proud that the Lord saved them out of thier sins...........as a direct result of a Billy Graham crusade in thier native land of South Africa.

    To say that Billy Graham has no fruit to prove his salvation and must be an unsaved wolf in sheeps clothing is not only a mistake but also borders on the arrogant. Arrogance is certainly not listed as a fruit of the spirit....should we believe that you are not saved? Would our belief that you are unsaved make it true? I think not.

    Only God writes in the Book of Life, not us.

    The same goes for Bush....I don't like him, but I also don't know him well enough to know if there is fruit in the more private areas of his life that I don't know about. I will therefore not even speculate on his salvation.
     
  10. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    --------------------------------------------------
    Case in point would be my neighbors up the street, where my youngest spends half her time. Lovely Christian couple. They weren't raised in the church although the husbands family belonged to the Methodist faith. They have made their mistakes and are proud that the Lord saved them out of thier sins...........as a direct result of a Billy Graham crusade in thier native land of South Africa.

    To say that Billy Graham has no fruit to prove his salvation and must be an unsaved wolf in sheeps clothing is not only a mistake but also borders on the arrogant. Arrogance is certainly not listed as a fruit of the spirit....should we believe that you are not saved? Would our belief that you are unsaved make it true? I think not.

    --------------------------------------------------


    God said that his word will not return unto him void. Just because your neighbors are saved as a result of Billy Graham's crusade, does not show forth his fruit. This only shows forth the power of God's word. It does not however show Billy Grahams fruit. His fruit is bad. He sends many souls to the Roman Catholic Church, and has Roman Catholics also speaking at his crusades. This is not the fruit of a saved man, but a false tare. Do not forget, that satan can come as an angel of light, and so also his ministers as ministers of righteousness. I think many are confused as to the fruits of the saved person, and are confusing this with personal sins. There is no saved person that would do, say, believe, or act the way these men have. God in them, would not let them. These are fundamental truths known and understood in their/our salvation. Jesus Christ is the way, the truth and the life, and no one comes unto the Father, but by him. They would not be able to say, nor lead others to believe ANYTHING contrary to this fundamental truth. This is the truth.
    You are a born again child of God and do not know this? I find this hard to believe.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  11. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    Now, your calling Billy Graham SATAN? An angel of light? UNREAL!
     
  12. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    God tells us about them, and their attributes. Who do you think they are Phillip, and how exactly would you know? Does God tell us this for no reason? Or does he tell us this for a reason? Think Phillip. Try understanding what God has said, rather than trying to defend things and people that you shouldn't. Your witness will be weak as a result, and you might lead many innocent souls to be decieved by things and people if you do not warn them. You cannot warn others, unless you can see it for yourself first. How is it you can tell Benny Hinn is a false prophet? Would you say he is saved? What about Kenneth Copeland? What about the mormans, etc. Where does the line stop, and by what manner do you make the judgement in order to be able to tell one is or is not christian? Are you saying God never told us we could and would know? Scriptures say otherwise, as I have shown. You rather believe your own opinions, than that of God? I am not surprised, and you are asking to be decieved. We need to start applying scriptural truth to all things, rather than applying only our own biased opinions.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  13. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper Active Member

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    The line stops, Michelle, when someone says that there is another way to heaven besides the Blood of Christ.

    The rest of the things we love to debate on this board have nothing to do with salvation. There is no way for a human to tell who has accepted the free gift of salvation based on just the words of his mouth.

    The fruits of the spirit listed in Galatians 5:22 are the things we use to guide us in our decisions about how to act and treat others. They are not there to to help us judge anyone's salvation.
     
  14. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Michelle may be referring to the issue of inclusivism, which it seems that Billy Graham espoused in an interview with Robert Schuller. This topic came up on another list I'm on. Apparently, Graham has not denied what he says here. I am not saying Graham is an inclusivist, only that what he says here sounds like it. Inclusivism is becoming more and more accepted in the evangelical church -- I have run into it several times. An inclusivist will say that Jesus is the only way to God but believes that people can know Jesus through other religions without knowing the name of Jesus; that is, they might encounter Jesus through Buddhism, Islam, etc. Of course, I vigorously disagree with this. But read what is below and see what you all think.

    The above is just an excerpt. You should read the whole page to get the whole impact of it.

    If anyone has info on this, please post.
     
  15. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    --------------------------------------------------
    The line stops, Michelle, when someone says that there is another way to heaven besides the Blood of Christ.

    --------------------------------------------------


    Tell Billy Graham and President Bush this, as they show forth they believe the opposite of this fundamental truth.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  16. menageriekeeper

    menageriekeeper Active Member

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    That quote sounds more like predestination, to me, than anything more ominous.

    Quite a few baptists believe in predestination. If you are going to believe that God chooses for salvation who he will then you have to accept that he may predestine(sp) a Buddist. (not my personal belief)

    However there is a scripture somewhere that says that Gods glory can be found in the very world around us whether or not we have been exposed to the scripture......something like that....let me go find the reference.
     
  17. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    --------------------------------------------------
    The fruits of the spirit listed in Galatians 5:22 are the things we use to guide us in our decisions about how to act and treat others. They are not there to to help us judge anyone's salvation.
    --------------------------------------------------


    Yes, if they had but only just the two fruits: Love and Faith, they would NOT be doing or saying or allowing what they do. To send people off to the Roman Catholic Church is showing not only they do not understand salvation by grace of God through faith, but shows forth a lack of love not only for this fundamental truth, but for others, as they are sent to a church that teaches a false gospel and a false Christ. One would also not be able to say all religions believe in the same God. There is no way the Holy Spirit of God would ever lead anyone to think, believe or understand such things. You yourself should know this.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  18. Bro Tony

    Bro Tony New Member

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    Michelle,

    I think you might want to retract or restate this portion of your earlier post. This fits all Christians who are married to unbelievers, do you really want to go there?

    Bro Tony
     
  19. Phillip

    Phillip <b>Moderator</b>

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    You have obviously never heard a Billy Graham sermon.

    Should we draw the line with you because you are self-centered? [​IMG]

    Or would you rather draw the line on me because I believe my NASB is God's Word? :eek:
     
  20. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    --------------------------------------------------
    Michelle,

    I think you might want to retract or restate this portion of your earlier post. This fits all Christians who are married to unbelievers, do you really want to go there?

    Bro Tony
    --------------------------------------------------


    Sure, we can go there. I was unsaved when I met and married my husband. What saith the scriptures about how I am to handle this? Am I sinning by staying with my husband to whom I have married? I would have to question a saved person who desires to marry, or even be involved with someone who is an unbeliever. There would be too many conflicts, and uncomfortable situations that would be encountered as a result, and would be very difficult and most likely impossible for a saved person to do. Can two walk together unless they be agreed?


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
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