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James and the Works Based Salvation

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by rockytopva, Oct 13, 2019.

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  1. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    To summarize James 2....

    Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. -James 2:24
     
    #1 rockytopva, Oct 13, 2019
  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    James uses the word "justified" to mean validated. Paul uses the word "justified" to mean a legal justification before a court, i.e. found not guility.

    James says the works validate your profession of faith.

    Peace to you
     
    #2 canadyjd, Oct 14, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 2
  3. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    I post this as it is so hard to get any to do anything at all these days.

    1. Very few willing to help in prayer meetings
    2. Very few willing to help in soul winning
    3. Very few willing to help in creative youth ministry
    4. Very few willing to attend church Sunday evenings
    5. Most live the life appeasing to the flesh and whose works are to fulfill the American dream.
    6. Many still entertain the party life and see nothing wrong with leaving a spouse for greener pastures

    I know too many people that if you compared the souls won to those motivated away you would likely find many motivated away but few, if any at all, won for Christ. They will live their life fearing that they will miss out on life. The words....

    And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. - Matthew 25:30

    Carry no weight within them.
     
    #3 rockytopva, Oct 14, 2019
  4. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I understand the frustration. However. I have learned it is not wise to focus fruit inspection.
     
    #4 canadyjd, Oct 14, 2019
  5. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
    3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
    4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will? - Hebrews 2

    15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
    16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
    17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
    18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
    19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
    20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. - Matthew 7
     
    #5 rockytopva, Oct 14, 2019
  6. Danthemailman

    Danthemailman Active Member

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    Amen! James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18) and not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). :Thumbsup
     
    #6 Danthemailman, Oct 14, 2019
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    • Prayers Prayers x 1
  7. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    The passage is focused on "false prophets". You seem to be focused all professing Christians. You do not know what a person's private walk with God is.

    I know people who spent time visiting folks in nursing homes and hospitals, but didn't announce it to the church. I had one person ask me to give money to someone in need, but wanted to remain anonymous.

    My only point is that, although I agree a professing Christian should produce fruit meet for repentance, I don't think it is our role to question their salvation if they aren't doing what we think they should do.

    Peace to you
     
    #7 canadyjd, Oct 15, 2019
  8. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member
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    It is hard to get people together in this day and time to get anything constructive going on ministry wise. All of their works go towards their own pleasures and materialism.
     
    #8 rockytopva, Oct 15, 2019
  9. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    How do you know "all their works" go toward their own pleasures and materialism?

    Do you know everything that everyone of those people do at all times?

    Peace to you
     
    #9 canadyjd, Oct 15, 2019
  10. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    James does not argue against Abraham being justified by faith (James 2:23). But makes the point that Abraham was justified by works before God, James 2:21, ". . .Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?" Genesis 22:12, ". . . for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me. . . ." Now on the basis that Isaac was 25 years of age [Historian Josepheus] then Abraham being justified by works would have been 50 years after being being justiified by faith without the works (Romans 4:3-5; Genesis 15:6).
     
    #10 37818, Oct 16, 2019
  11. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    I suppose there are those who think the same of me. That I just do nothing. How ever there are so many who judge others with out knowing. We should never assume because it's hypocritical to do so. Being concerned about what you are doing instead of what others are doing is much more important. In other words let God handle those who do nothing and stop judging and complaining about what you can't know about everyone else.
    MB
     
    #11 MB, Oct 16, 2019
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