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James Payton Jr, NIV, Sola Scriptura

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by TomVols, Sep 23, 2010.

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  1. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    James Payton Jr has an intriguing quote regarding the NIV from his Getting the Reformation Wrong. Speaking of "misconceptions" regarding the reformation belief in Sola Scriptura.

    Payton, a reformation scholar, argues that a simplistic "Scripture good, tradition bad" notion has become so common that it has even tainted the NIV and further perpetuated such an idea in today's church. (p. 133).

    Your thoughts?

    I'd prefer them from those who are open minded re: new translations. I don't think it's adding anything to hear from the folks that hated the NIV ten minutes before it was thought of :laugh:
     
    #1 TomVols, Sep 23, 2010
  2. Mexdeaf

    Mexdeaf New Member

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    Could you post a few more substantial quotes from the book?
     
    #2 Mexdeaf, Sep 23, 2010
  3. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Yes Tom, your quote was threadbare.
     
    #3 Rippon, Sep 23, 2010
  4. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    Truthfully, vis-a-vis the NIV, that's about it. Whrn I can, I'll give you the verbatim.

    /let me say that I don't immediately find his idea helpful. I think its a bit specious.

    Here's the quote:

    Thus far I've been unable to reach the archive of this journal. However, it seems he is arguing clearly that the idea of a simplistic notion of what the Reformers taught about Sola Scriptura has been aided significantly by the NIV (perhaps even born of such a notion). Do you agree?

    I personally understand his contention. I certainly allow that the NIV broke new ground in the world of translations. But I don't know that it was the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of contemporary alleged misconceptions about the Reformers' allergy to tradition. I take offense at his word "tainted." As a NRSV man, Payton obviously prefers translations somewhat more formal than the NIV. But to say the NIV has been tainted by potential misconceptions regarding the Reformers' view of Sola Scriptura needs more validation. I admit, I'd love to see his article.

    I was torn about whether to put this here or in the church history forum. I just thought it was interesting to those of us who have a respect for the NIV.
     
    #4 TomVols, Sep 24, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 24, 2010
  5. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    I may move this to the History forum. That was likely a better area (or General). You have to know church history to delve into this as well as historical theology, and let's just face it: most in here aren't up for the discussion.
     
    #5 TomVols, Oct 19, 2010
  6. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    If the rest of his writing is as inaccurate as his claim of "twenty six thousand Protestant denominations" then I would take all of it with a grain of salt.
     
    #6 TCassidy, Oct 19, 2010
  7. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Tradition Good - Scripture Bad

    Here is an example of where tradition has tainted the translation of a verse.

    You can see that the more recent TNIV and the NLT departed from the traditional reading and gave us a better translation.

    And she gave birth to her firstborn son and wrapped him in swaddling cloths and laid him in a manger, because there was no place for them in the inn.
    Luke 2:7, ESV

    and she gave birth to her firstborn, a son. She wrapped him in cloths and placed him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn.
    Luke 2:7, NIV

    and she gave birth to her firstborn, a son. She wrapped him in cloths and placed him in a manger, because there was no guest room available for them.
    Luke 2:7, TNIV

    She gave birth to her first child, a son. She wrapped him snugly in strips of cloth and laid him in a manger, because there was no lodging available for them.
    Luke 2:7, NLT

    There are other verses as well where tradition has tainted our translation of a passage and were changes might grate us.

    Rob
     
    #7 Deacon, Oct 20, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2010
  8. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    One way we might investigate the charge is to compare the NIV with with the New American Bible (not to be confused with the New American Standard Bible).

    The NAB is a Catholic version where tradition plays a good bit of a role in their theology.

    Comparing the two shows some difference between the translation in their use of the Greek word, paradosis (teaching/tradition/instruction)

    I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings, just as I passed them on to you.
    1 Corinthians 11:2, NIV

    I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you.
    1 Corinthians 11:2, NAB

    Rob
     
    #8 Deacon, Oct 21, 2010
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