Jerry Falwell Question?

I have my own strong feelings about Dr. Falwell and I admit I consider him an earthly hero of mine.

Until his last day, Jerry considered himself a strong fundamentalist. And I have yet to see any proof where he ever strayed from those strong convictions.

As for those that say Jerry couldn't preach, you just weren't around him much. He was one of the most amazing communicators I have ever witnessed no matter what the arena may be (religious, political, entertainment).

 

You obviously know a lot more about this than I do! :smilewinkgrin:

 

I feel that this is where I am at as well. In 1974 when I surrendered to the ministry, our Southern Baptist schools were not what I throught they should be. Always being in a conservative SB church,I had to go to an independent Baptist school to get my training.The schooling I recieved then is the same conservative training our SB schools put out today. I would say they moved away from him.

 

Gentlemen, please don't generalize. There are as many as 10,000 independent Baptist churches nowadays, with many different positions on separation among them.

 

That is the characteristic of being independant! :laugh: :laugh:

Also, even in the ABC-USA as I am, we have some UFOs as Salty has defined... and our denonmination is listed as one of the most liberal...

But our church and convention are conservative.

So John has something here about painting too broadly...
It is very hard to put labels on Baptist churches because each one is different...

Thank God for Autonomy...
When we lose autonomy, we quit being Baptist.
When a church can tell another church what to do, they are no longer Baptist.

 

Well said, Brother Tim! :thumbs:

 

Falwell Question

No, No. I just got some information recently that cleared up some of my own misunderstandings. What I shared was simply what my understanding is of the whole situation. I was not there and must go by what I have been told by those who were.

 

That works for me. Since I am way over here across the ocean I'm out of touch in some ways. We witness of what we know, amen?

God bless.

 

Early in his life, he was a truly STRONG independent fundamental baptist. His college was before named Liberty Baptist College, then later changed to Liberty University. Why? Because of accreditation for added degrees like, Ph.D, etc. But, it made looks much liberal now than before.

I was graduated from baptist college not time ago. Several deaf students were transfered from L.U. they told me, that college is much liberal and lower standards.

Also, Dr. Falwell was invloved with compromising with religions.

I know why, because he makes lot of money and pride.

Yesterday, I read in local newspaper(Detroit), the article mentioned of Falwell burial. He was buried at his mansion. That is misery.

Being fame and pride and wealthy mean nothing.

He focus on politicals and education too much rather than evangelical and gosepl of Jesus Christ. He likes to get the world pay attention to him. He received lot of popular from media than any baptist pastors except Dr. Hyles.

He did sued Flint Flynn of maginaze for millions of dollars. But, the court order send several of thousands dollars instead of million dollars.

Also, I read newspaper saying that ex-L.U. student was arrested during funeral for plan to put 5 bombs to threaten L.U. That was so fool.

I doubt that many L.U. studentds are actual saved. Only God knows.

We know that Yale, Havard, and other colleges were used as Christian colleges many years ago. Now, they are worldly college. I would not be surprise that L.U. would be worldly college one day. Sad.

I don't pay respect him for his testimony and fruit.

I truly respect Dr. Lee Roberson the mostly, because of his humble and truly loved the Lord for lost souls.

But. let God judge pastors. I am aware that all pastors shall received greater judgment than regular Christians in the judgment day. Because of many people are being lead by their leader.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

Mat 7:1 (KJV1611 Edition):
Iudge not, that ye be not iudged.
2 For with what iudgment ye iudge,
yee shall be iudged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be measured
to you againe.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote
that is in thy brothers eye, but considerest
not the beame that is in thine owne eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother,
Let mee pull out the mote out of thine eye,
and beholde, a beame is in thine owne eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beame
out of thine owne eye: and then shalt
thou see clearely to cast out the mote
out of thy brothers eye.

 

I want to say that I agree with Rhetorician who started this thread. Jerry Falwell used his life serving the Lord. Jerry was not perfect, but he loved and served the Lord. He was a public figure which caused his strengths and his weaknesses to be made known to all. Jerry and his wife have two sons who will be ministrying in the same church and same school which their dad had started many years ago. May we lift up Jerry's wife and children at this time in prayer as they begin their new roles without Jerry.

 

While Jerry Falwell never abandoned his bedrock conservative beliefs, he became less outspoken on controversial issues later in life. A prime example is his statement following the 9/11 attacks to the effect that God has withdrawn his protection from America due to our immorality. After the public outcry, he softened his stance considerably. The Jerry Falwell of the 1980's would never have backed down from such a statement.

Falwell was also a public figure at the national level--a friend of presidents, senators and Supreme Court justices. As such he was constantly in association with Catholics, Jews and mainline Protestants. I believe this association with people far more liberal than he was moderated his views concerning other religious groups. Certainly his public statements about these groups became more moderate with the passing of time.

 

I grew up in the same era as did Jerry Falwell. I know a little about the changes we made in personal attacks on liberalism. Over time, we did not change our theology, but we did change our personal attacks and methods of reaching out. Perhaps we learned that rabid personal attacks alientated rather than reached those we disagreed with, and this looked like compromise to others.

I personally believe that Jerry remained faithful throughout, and I should like to share his testimony for the Lord throughout my life.

God bless his family and may this ministry continue to grow in His truth.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Amen, Brother Jim1999, Sir -- Preach it! :thumbs:




Edited to remove a stray 'c'???

 

I disagree that Falwell was a fundamentalist to his last breath. In fact, I don't believe he was a fundamentalist after the 1960's.

As of the 1970's, I believe he was clearly in the evangelical camp, and stayed there until his death.

There are distinct differences between evangelicals and fundamentalists, though even many Christians confuse the two.

In person, in church and in the media, Falwell virtually always identified himself as an evangelical. The vast majority of his supporters also identified him as an evangelical. Most of his actions from the 70's on were those of an evangelical, not a fundamentalist.

As for your "UFO" remarks, what exact beliefs and practices constitute an "ultra fundamentalist onlyist"? Using the word "ultra" to describe a religious or political figure or organization is considered to be highly derogatory. It is used to describe people who harbor extremist views.

Please enlighten us as to what these "extreme" beliefs and practices are that the "UFO's" allegedly espouse.

I'm not personally offended by your remarks, because I'm a conservative evangelical. However, I'm wary of those who try to paint an entire segment of brother Christians as "ultras/extremists", without providing any documented examples of extreme beliefs and behavior.

 

To answer Rhetorician's original question as to what happened to Falwell in the last 30 years or so, I'd say Jerry moved from the fundamentalist camp squarely into the evangelical camp.

 

Saltcity said it earlier...

I wouldn't even assert that it is those particular rules that make one an ultra-fundie (although those listed above are quite common)...but it's the long list of "extra regulations" and quite honestly, it seems that most all of those regulations are "hills to die on."

 

[SIZE=-1]"Ultra" is defined as:

"extremist: (used of opinions and actions) far beyond the norm; "extremist political views"; "an ultra conservative""

The opinions and actions rbell mentioned clearly do NOT constitute extremism.

Extremism would be such things as advocating violence against an individual, group or property.

The use of terms like "ultra-fundies" to describe someone who insists on using the KJV etc., are completely inappropriate. "Ultra" is merely being used as an unwarranted personal and derogatory attack to discredit fundamentalists.

Baptist Board admins and mods should not allow it, unless the person(s) using the word can indeed identify genuinely extremist activity that a person or group are engaging in.
[/SIZE]

 

The Ultra-Fundamentals

The fundamentals of traditional fundamentalism:

1. the inspiration and infallibility of scripture
2. the deity of Christ (including His virgin birth)
3. the substitutionary atonement of Christ's death
4. the literal resurrection of Christ from the dead
5. the literal return of Christ in the Second Advent

The ultra-fundamentals:

1. Anti-Bible (KJBO = King James Bible Only)
2. Anti-education (AKA: pro-ignorance)
3. Anti-success
4. Anti-female
5. Anti-alien (Hate of gay-boys, racism, etc.)

Typical statements made by the ultra-fundamentalists:
(note that the world calls them "fundies"
and we real fundamentalists have to bear their
burden unjustly):

1. The KJB replaces the original language manuscripts as being God's word
2. Calling "seminary": "cemetery"
3. Jerry Falwell sold out to the Devil
4. mistreatment of women
5. Jews killed Christ

 

Thank you Ed! This is a wonderful differentiation!