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Jesus and His Sheep

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Ps104_33, Aug 24, 2003.

  1. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33 New Member

    Sep 3, 2001
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    Jesus told the Pharisees, "but you do not believe because you are not my sheep" (John 10:26). Notice carefully Jesus' words. He did not say "you aren't my sheep because you don't believe!" He said "you don't believe because you are not my sheep." John 10:26 In other words, those who believe were already Jesus' sheep prior to salvation. Being a sheep doesn’t come about as a result of believing. Rather, believing in Jesus is dependent upon whether you were already His sheep. Jesus has sheep; these sheep will believe. The only way He could already have sheep is if they were chosen to be His sheep beforehand.

    Make sense? Comments?
  2. Me2

    Me2 New Member

    Apr 16, 2002
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    Jesus used the descriptors within his animal analogies as referring to two groups of peoples.
    "sheep and goats".

    really there are only two kinds of "Spirits".

    the spirit of the carnal flesh which all men are physically born with and is cursed and the righteous spirit of Christ.

    all carnal flesh spirits are cursed and at enmity against God and the things of God. nor does the carnal spirit understand the things of God. they are all destined for death.

    God chooses whom he will impart or exchange his spirit within the believer and then will man be drawn to God and his Christ. not before.

    the spirit within the person has to be completely changed out for the possessor to desire to know God. and to be able to comprehend the things of God.

    the spirit cant be "renewed". mans old spirit.

    the spirit of Carnal flesh has already been judged and destined for death. God completely replaces the old spirit with his new righteous spirit of Christ.

    thus Jesus's sheep hear his voice.
    why? because his sheep has his spirit within them.
  3. Sularis

    Sularis New Member

    Sep 4, 2000
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    Me2 - yer statements are a little fanatical in their statements

    Simply put Christians sin - less then non Christians hopefully

    but i hope where you see that affects your statements
  4. Me2

    Me2 New Member

    Apr 16, 2002
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    why do you refer to my statements as fanatical?

    I understand that once we receive our new "sheep" spirit. Its impossible to lose it.

    so sin is not the problem. nor God leaving us.

    Its turning from our fears of God failing us, when we fall,..
    to the eternal forgiveness and mercy of God.

    Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
    Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any [man] pluck them out of my hand.
    Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.

    see the statement.."no man can pluck them out of my fathers hand". meaning we are "saved" before we are ever drawn to Jesus Christ his Son.
    we are saved before we even comprehend judgement
    or propitiation or atonement.

    I agree that we sin..in this world.. [​IMG]

    and christians will continue to make mistakes..

    (but what we are not saying is that by faith we are seperated from our physical bodies and reside now in heaven, in new spiritual bodies, with new righteous spirits. our home is in heaven NOW, and by faith, we can not sin because we believe we are dead to living within our physical bodies. we live by faith and not by sight.)

    but unfortuanetly what we see with our physical eyes is that:

    Im "sinning" right now, by simply existing in this body of Flesh.. In this world of Death.

    But Im Not here, by faith. Im In a spiritual body in heaven.

    And I KNOW That My God loves me and will never leave me. even if I do continue to "sin" in this body of flesh.. in THIS fallen world.


    thats what My God is observing. He is observing me now in heaven while I am in a new spiritual body with a new spirit within it that can not sin ever again. [​IMG]

    confused yet?
  5. Yelsew

    Yelsew Guest

    Pharisees and Sadducees
    Republicans and Democrats
    Catholic and Protestants

    The thing that these groups have in common is their respective goals or objectives.

    The things that these groups do not have in common is their belief systems.

    That is Pharisees and Sadducees both believed there is a God, Heaven, etc., and they agree that their root is Abraham etc. But they still do not agree on the means ways and means of doing things or the meaning of life for that matter.

    Repubs and Demos the same and so on.

    Goats and sheep the same. So that leaves us with a mindset problem to resolve doesn't it?

    Jesus knew the mindset of the pharisees and knew that they were not amenable to the change He was bringing about through the New Covenant. He knew that their mindset was not to have a meek and lowly baby come as the Messiah, but rather to have a mighty conquering hero riding on a white steed coming to vanquish their foes. They would not be open to the possibility and sure enough they were not.

    No, they were not "lost sheep", they were in control of their own destiny. They did not need "saving" by this "common man" before them. They were above that.

    Mind set is powerful, and that is why it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven.

    Note also that the pharisees were usually the "rich and powerful" of the land.
  6. GH

    GH New Member

    Jul 6, 2002
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    Makes sense to me Psalm 104. God chooses whom He chooses and hardens whom He hardens. I believe that all are chosen. Oh, those vessels of wrath that tug at my heart. (Is my heart more loving than God's?)

    They are (((((chosen))))) vessels of wrath. All people are chosen - some vessels for noble use, some for ignoble use. Those vessels of wrath have a place in the plan. Chosen by God, I believe, to bring about the purpose of His will by His Spirit through those whom He has prepared to receive it. Scripture speaks of God creating good and evil and this for the ecclesia (which was chosen before the foundations of the earth were laid, chosen before God created good, evil or the Adversary) - the church - to sanctify her. God has set her apart for His special work, but does this mean that the unchosen are unloved by God? If He commands us to love our enemies - how can it be that He would hate His, especially since He created them that way? Again, am I more loving than God?

    Rom 9:13 Just as it is written: "Jacob (the chosen) I loved, but Esau (the unchosen) I hated." What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For He says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy (the chosen), and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion (the unchosen)." Then it goes on to say that God will have mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He HARDENS whom HE WANTS to harden.

    In Romans Paul speaks about all dead in Adam, all alive in Christ (more than four times he says it in one chapter). The end of our faith which in reality is the FAITH of the Son of God expressed in our lives by His grace, is only part of the equation, for our Lord is the Savior of all men, "especially those", or in particular, those who place their faith in Him by His will. Salvation flows as far as the curse is found (Genesis – the Seed shall bruise the head of Satan wherever the curse is found) and is expressed as "all the more" in Romans chapter 5, among other scripture verses. John also declares that Christ has made a propitiation for our sins. And, in the same breath declares that the atoning sacrifice is "not for our sins only" BUT ALSO.... for the sins of the whole world." ("but for those of the rest of the world as well.")

    Rom. 11:32 For God locks up all together in stubbornness, that He should be merciful to all. 33 O, the depth of the riches and the wisdom and the knowledge of God! How inscrutable are His judgments, and untraceable His ways! 34 For, who knew the mind of the Lord? or, who became His adviser? 35 or, who gives to Him first, and it will be repaid him? 36 seeing that out of Him and through Him and for Him is all". Can anyone talk back to that verse? Not me.

    There is only one way to God; it flows to us by His grace. He is the Lord, that which is closed, He opens. "He will take of the things of mine and reveal them unto you," Jesus said. Paul speaks of being instructed by the Father by the giving of a "spirit of wisdom and insight into mysteries through a knowledge of Him, the eyes of your heart being enlightened that you may know what is the hope His call to you inspires." Eph. 1.
    "...when it pleased God, who separated me from my mothers womb, and called me by His grace..." Like Paul, we've been chosen and called by His grace. The way is open for us, by His grace. But "God will have all mankind to be saved" (1Tim.2:4).
    Rom 5:18 Consequently, then, as it was through one offense for all mankind for condemnation, thus also it is through one just award for all mankind for life's justifying. 19 For even as, through the disobedience of the one man, the many (all) were constituted sinners, thus also, through the obedience of the One, the many (all) shall be constituted just.
    "8 and, being found in fashion as a human, He humbles Himself, becoming obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore, also, God highly exalts Him, and graces Him with the name that is above every name, 10 that in the name of Jesus every knee should be bowing, celestial and terrestrial and subterranean, 11 and every tongue should be acclaiming that Jesus Christ is Lord, for the glory of God, the Father" (Phil.2:8-11).

    But our God is a consuming fire.

    Brimstone= Gophriyth=

    The Breath of Jehovah


    Brimstone= Theion=

    Divine incense.

    Burning brimstone (with power to purify.}


    "..He will baptize you in the Holy Spirit and Fire (pur) His winnowing-shovel is in His hand, and He will make a thorough clearance of His threshing floor..."Matt.3:12

    "But WHO may abide the day of His coming? and WHO shall stand when He appeareth? for He is like a refiner's fire and like a fuller's soap:

    And He shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and He shall purify the sons of Levi (Paul says in Romans that all Israel will be saved), and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness." Malachi 3:2,3

    Jesus, our Great High Priest, will see to that! All glory, praise and honor to you, Almighty Father, Wonderful Counselor, Prince of Peace \o/