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Jesus is the FIRST and LAST CHURCH

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by JValen, Jun 13, 2002.

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  1. JValen

    JValen New Member

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    I am a Baptist, but a Child of the WORD, first.
    I am constantly told by denominations that they are the "first church"
    To me, this is blashemy, because Jesus is the First Church, brought down to earth and shared with his disciples. It does not matter what church claims it, the point is it angers me, because the WORD of GOD, which is Christ, Our Living God is the HEAD of all His churches and this is a reflection of man/churches arrogance.
    NO CHURCH OR MAN is above CHRIST's WORD.
    It is the Final AUTHORITY. Let's stop hurting God WHO LOVES us, and say TRUTH is the First & LAST of everything GOOD. (that includes His BRIDE)
     
    #1 JValen, Jun 13, 2002
  2. Helen

    Helen <img src =/Helen2.gif>

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    A agree with you, JValen! Although the Bible says that He is the cornerstone, and He said He would build His church. So He Himself is not the church, but the church is of Him and Him alone.

    What is a help with denominations, is that it gives us an idea about who is adding man's ideas to God's Word. For instance, some liberal denominations, such as Methodist (although it sure didn't start out that way!) make excuses for a lot of what they believe vs. what God's Word says because they say the culture has changed. My personal response to that is that sure, cultures have changed, but man has not, and God's Word is to us as individuals, not to us as a culture.

    And then there are the legalists -- not trusting the Holy Spirit to guide His own, I guess, they establish series of 'guidelines' which their members are expected to obey. It makes it very difficult for a person to listen to the Holy Spirit when the church is speaking louder!

    There are some reasons the webmaster is dealing with this on a Baptist basis:

    1. In many parts of the world where cults abound, the title of "Baptist" means "Biblical Christianity" as opposed to other sorts and non-Christian groups.

    2. Although Baptists are known for fussing about this and that, basic doctrine is biblical, and you can always find at least some born again Christians in every Baptist church.

    You might be interested in the Bible studies (one or both) below. I'm sure you could add some interesting comments!

    [ June 15, 2002, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: Helen ]
     
    #2 Helen, Jun 15, 2002
  3. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    You've got to help me - I'm a little confused as to where you are going with this.

    ekklesia (often translated church, assembly) is a body of called-out people.

    Just "how" does Jesus = church? That simply does not make sense.

    Fill in the blanks for me, okay? [​IMG]
     
    #3 Dr. Bob, Jun 17, 2002
  4. mark

    mark <img src =/mark.gif>

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    The Church is the Bride of Christ....
     
    #4 mark, Jun 17, 2002
  5. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Understand the metaphors used of the Church, but never saw any that would equate Christ=Church.

    Unless as His Body . . but even that metaphor falls short, since the being (Christ) is much more than a body.

    Still wondrin . . :confused:
     
    #5 Dr. Bob, Jun 18, 2002
  6. JValen

    JValen New Member

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    IN Matthew 16:18
    Jesus said " I will build MY church"
    The church is built on the Word of God which is TRUTH, God Himself, not built on imperfect men.
    The church (believers) is the body of Christ.
    Jesus is the FIRST and last and all these denominations claiming to be the First Church is blashemy. It was built on Christ, started in Zion, then on earth to Jerusalem with the disciples and it seems logical to say the church is Christ, since He is the Head of the body. Without Christ, the HEAD a church is nothing, of course. The WORD is over all men/churches (the believers).Denying this is arrogant to me and we should give all credit to Our Creator,CHRIST Who is the Word, and the TRUE CHURCH. Yes we are the bride, but not seperate " Without God we are nothing" The cornerstone (Christ) is from Zion.
    Before men existed or were created, Christ was praised in Heaven by the hosts of angels. The church is a living temple for the Holy Spirit. " He Who builds All things is God"
    To read this info go to www.letusreason.org/RC6.htm

    [ June 20, 2002, 09:55 PM: Message edited by: JValen ]
     
    #6 JValen, Jun 20, 2002
  7. ATeenageChristian

    ATeenageChristian New Member

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    Jesus Christ is the head of the Church. He is the same as yesterday, last year, tomorrow, and the coming years. :D
     
    #7 ATeenageChristian, Jun 21, 2002
  8. VoiceInTheWilderness

    VoiceInTheWilderness New Member

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    I think I understand the brother's delimma, the question must be asked, what is a church. To say that Chirst IS THE CHURCH is not academic at all. The fact is; there were other church's in existence in the Lord's day. The word ekklesia (called out assembly) that was used by The Lord was something that his disciples would have been very familiar with. There were already Greek city/states in existence that were refferred to at that time as ekklesias. The emphasis on what Christ was saying was, "I'll build MY church...." or in other words, my kind of church, one that He would start-organize-govern-and preserve until His return, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.

    Here's the real question, can a group that gathers together yet does not function with the same order and doctrine of our Lord be truly called a church?
     
    #8 VoiceInTheWilderness, Jul 10, 2002
  9. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    As noted ekklesia was a word in common use in the days of Our Lord and the writers and readers of the New Testament. So, yes there can be ekklesias(assemblies) "that gather together yet do not function with the same order and doctrine of our Lord". They are just not New Testament assemblies. For the same reasons, a Moose Lodge is not a Elks Lodge or an American Legion Post.

    [ July 11, 2002, 04:20 PM: Message edited by: The Squire ]
     
    #9 Squire Robertsson, Jul 11, 2002
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