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Featured Jesus only “knows” believers who are obedient

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Samuels, Feb 7, 2017.

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  1. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord’, shall enter the kingdom of heaven,
    but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day,
    ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name,
    and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them,
    ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’
    … But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them,
    will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand:
    and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and
    beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.” (Matthew 7:21-27, NKJV)


    I never knew you who practice lawlessness, break God’s laws, act wickedly
    Matthew 7:23, “knew” >> to know, “ginosko”, Strong’s [HASHTAG]#1097[/HASHTAG].
    From “Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words” …
    “to know, ‘ginosko’, Strong’s [HASHTAG]#1097[/HASHTAG]: “here the ‘knowing’ suggests approval and
    bears the meaning ‘to be approved’ in 2 Tim 2:19; cf. John 10:14, John 10:27”.
    “The Lord knows (approves of) those who are His” (2 Timothy 2:19)
    “I know (approve of) My sheep, and am known by My own.” (John 10:14)
    “My sheep hear My voice, and I know (approve of) them, and they follow Me.
    And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish …” (John 10:27-28)
    Matt 7:23 (NASB) “I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.”
    Matt 7:23 (NLT) “I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who break God’s laws.”
    Matt 7:23 (TLB) “You have never been Mine. Go away, for your deeds are evil.”
    Matt 7:23 (AMP) “depart from Me, you who act wickedly [disregarding My commands].”

    Jesus has never approved of those so-called “believers” …
    who “practice lawlessness” instead of practicing righteousness!
    “In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest:
    whoever does NOT practice righteousness is NOT of God” (1 John 3:10)

    Do you really believe practicing righteousness includes habitually sinning?

    Great was the fall
    Those who hear Jesus’ sayings, but don’t do them, have a great fall.
    Is this fall from salvation, or from rewards? LoL

    If you really know Jesus, you love Him and obey His commandments

    John 14:15, 21, 23, 24 • “If anyone loves Me, he will obey My word (commandments).”
    John 8:31 • “If you abide in (obey) My word, you are My disciples indeed.”
    John 8:51 • “Most assuredly … if anyone obeys My word he shall never see death.”


    Matthew 19:17 • “But if you want to enter into (eternal) life, obey the commandments.”
    Luke 8:21 • “My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and obey it.”
    Luke 11:28 • “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and obey it!”
    Luke 8:15 • “But the ones (hearers of the word of God) that fell on the good ground
    are those who … obey it and bear fruit with patience.”


    Hebrews 5:9 • “He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.”
    James 1:21 • “But be obeyers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves.”
    Romans 8:4, NLT • “So now we are able to obey God’s laws, if we follow after the Holy Spirit”


    1 John 2:3 • “Now by this we know that we know Him, if we obey His commandments.
    1 John 2:17 • “… but he who obeys the will of God abides forever.”
    1 John 3:24 • “Now he who obeys His commandments abides in Him, and He in him.”


    So, whose slave do you choose to be? …(a slave) of sin leading to death,
    OR (a slave) of obedience leading to righteousness” (Romans 6:16)


    To the grace-only believer
    Don’t you care if Jesus “knows” (approves of) you or not?
    Do you really believe that you’re going to heaven regardless?
    Part of being “lukewarm” is NOT obeying Jesus’ commandments!
    It’s all selfishness … not caring anything about the wishes of our Savior.
    Jesus says: If you are a lukewarm believer, you think you are A-OK, but …
    “you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked” (Revelation 3:17).
     
    #1 Samuels, Feb 7, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
  2. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Samuels, why do you teach salvation by works? Perhaps you should thoroughly read through the letter to the Galatians.
     
  3. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    I done did read it.
    Did you? ... Prove it by answering a Galatians question ...
    How many years was Paul in the desert places learning spiritual stuff?
     
    #3 Samuels, Feb 7, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
  4. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Romans 7:24-25
    [24]Oh, what a miserable person I am! Who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death?
    [25]Thank God! The answer is in Jesus Christ our Lord. So you see how it is: In my mind I really want to obey God’s law, but because of my sinful nature I am a slave to sin.

    Romans 8:1-2
    [1]So now there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ Jesus.
    [2]And because you belong to him, the power of the life-giving Spirit has freed you from the power of sin that leads to death.
     
  5. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Again, Samuels, why do you preach salvation by works?
    Read Galatians once again.
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Are we saved for all past sins, but put on probation until death. to see if we merit it in the end?
     
  7. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    Yes, the multitudes of warnings in the NT are for the express purpose of helping
    God's elect (chosen ones) walk gingerly on that narrow path towards eternal life.
    They are NOT for the non-elect because they are not going to be saved.

    Jesus told me that both groups are to hear the true gospel ...
    He doesn't want multitudes of non-elect complaining at the Judgment
    that no one told them, warned them, etc.
    But, IMO, He has to give faith to the elect (only) so they are able to believe.
    Go figure!

    Hey, the KEY is ...
    (NO O ONE doesn't work) NOBODY is deserving of being with the Lord in Heaven.
    That ANY of us can make it ... Praise the Lord ...
    is just the result of God's free gift of grace towards those He chooses!
    There are verses which explain WHO He desires to be with ...
    those with humble and contrite hearts (and He knows who has 'em).
     
    #7 Samuels, Feb 7, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Do you know much much odenience God requires to keep us saved and secured? We can KNOW that wehaveeternal life, but at can ge changed to no more life?
     
  10. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    It's having the correct heart attitude.
    Trying hard to obey Jesus' commandments.
    Repenting when we mess up.

    IMO, those who can know they are saved are
    those who are being faithful, walking in the Spirit, etc.
    How about PRACTICING RIGHTEOUSNESS?
    Wouldn't that be nice!
    There are about 8 NT verses for that one.
    You can (and may) ignore these and multitudes more (at your peril).
     
    #10 Samuels, Feb 7, 2017
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2017
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Saved by faith alone, Grace aone, eh? The just shall live by faith to faith!
     
  12. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    With great certainty, sin effects our relationship with God.

    As a believer my sins have been covered by the work of Jesus: I AM APPROVED by God through faith, not works.

    The Savior covered my sin, delivering me from death and separation from God,
    ...but its effects and its pull still lingers in my life and changes my personal relationship with him.​

    Obedience to him strengthens my faith and gives me great confidence in my daily walk with my Guide.

    Failure to obey may cause me to question my faith and should lead me to change direction (repent) toward him.

    Rob
     
  13. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    You do notice, don't you, that the Lord Jesus says to these people, "I never knew you"? He does not say, "I knew you once and now I've forgotten you." What does this tell you?
     
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  14. MennoSota

    MennoSota Well-Known Member
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    Bump

    No need to live in fear and under the law. Yeshua has redeemed us from the curse.

    Paul say he wished that those who try to burden us again with the law, once we have been set free, would emasculate themselves.

    Galatians, it's worth the read.

    Galatians 2:16-21
    [16]Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law.”
    [17]But suppose we seek to be made right with God through faith in Christ and then we are found guilty because we have abandoned the law. Would that mean Christ has led us into sin? Absolutely not!
    [18]Rather, I am a sinner if I rebuild the old system of law I already tore down.
    [19]For when I tried to keep the law, it condemned me. So I died to the law—I stopped trying to meet all its requirements—so that I might live for God.
    [20]My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
    [21]I do not treat the grace of God as meaningless. For if keeping the law could make us right with God, then there was no need for Christ to die.
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Those verses that he want to claim either refer to professing Christians whop were not really saved, or else he misunderstands the context!
     
  16. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    This is all wonderful, of course!
    Problem is ... there are a dozen or more obvious epistle verses which say:
    Believers sitting in churches can lose their eternal life!
    And then there are many more addressed to everyone in Jesus' Gospels.
     
  17. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    This could easily mean ...
    since the day you received My Spirit, you have continued to want to sin and did sin!
     
  18. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for your reply.
    Does God give the Spirit to those whom He does not know and never has known?
     
  19. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    What is it about churches that makes them dangerous places for believers?

    John 11:25-26. Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though He may die, He shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?'

    Well? Do you?

    Actually, we have to reconcile the verses that warn that nominal believers are not guaranteed heaven with the ones that very clearly state that the true believer will never be lost.
     
  20. Samuels

    Samuels Member
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    Sure, of course I do.

    Believers who are involved in habitual (unrepented-of) sin are NOT living in Jesus.


    Do you believe this?

    They also are NOT practicing righteousness
    which proves they are NOT righteous (in God's eyes).
    Oh, they may be righteous in your eyes ... but, who cares!
    etc. etc. etc.
     
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