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Jews, Catholics, And Protestants Reconciled

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Dan Edwin, Sep 14, 2008.

  1. Dan Edwin

    Dan Edwin New Member

    Jul 24, 2008
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    Jesus Christ was a “stumbling block” to the nation of people Israel because they rejected Him as the Messiah (Romans 11:7-10). And because of this, they were blinded to the truth so through their unbelief God would have a just reason to have mercy on the Gentiles to save them first and save Israel last. For as you (Gentiles) were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their (Israel) disobedience, even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all (Romans 11:30-32); for God will have all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth (1 Timothy 2:4); that in the dispensation of the fullness of times, He might gather all things together in Christ (Ephesians 1:10). In Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive (1 Corinthians 15:22).

    The Bible says there is one faith, but we have many denominations today because the church did not endure sound doctrine (2 Timothy 4:3). There was a falling away in the Roman Empire and because of the overspreading of abominations, God sent a strong delusion to condemn those who would not receive the truth (Jesus Christ) so they might be saved (2 Thessalonians 2:10-12). Law-like teachings entered to contain the sins of those who would not trust in Jesus Christ to have sins forgiven so they might be saved. Because of this, the Spirit of Christ was cut-off from being received by the grace of God for their faith. Doctrine hindered the rest of the “dead” in trespasses and sins from being made alive in Christ by being reconciled to God though faith. The world went into perdition for 1260 years until those spiritually dead in trespasses and sins began rising to life again (1 Thessalonians 4:16) by receiving the grace of God for their faith in Jesus Christ to be reconciled to God and born again when forgiven of all trespasses.

    Prophecy from the book of Daniel shows Christ was “cut off” in the fifth century for the purpose of “destroying” the holy people “peacefully” with doctrine. These were citizens of Rome that were holy either by receiving the Son of God as descendants of Jacob (Israel), or by receiving the Son of God when conceived though either parent having the Spirit of Christ. But the people of Rome had become corrupt, laden with sin by following the lusts of their flesh and the world. They did not believe in Jesus Christ to be saved by having their sins forgiven by the grace of God. The doctrine that “destroyed them peacefully” with fear as the will of God came through the Bishop of Rome (papacy) and hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church. There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; (1 Timothy 2:5). Those who believe in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and repent and confess their trespasses are made “alive” together with Christ (saved) by being reconciled to God when forgiven of all trespasses. But if we do not believe God will save us unless we keep certain rules, traditions, or sacraments, we may not be living by faith to be forgiven by the grace of God to receive salvation as a gift (Galatians 5:4).

    Jews, Catholics, and Protestants can come together in peace as members of one body in Christ to live together in the Kingdom of God (Ephesians 2:15) when we understand that: (1) Jesus Christ was a stumbling block to the nation of people Israel. Because they were blinded to Jesus Christ as the Messiah by their unbelief, God had mercy on the Gentiles so they might be saved first (Romans 11:7-11, 25-33); and (2) the purpose of the papacy and hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church from the fifth into the seventeenth century was to contain the sin of those who would not receive Jesus Christ by faith so they might be saved; and (3) If we would end division in the church by denominations and love one another as brothers and sisters of one family, we could work together to restore this world as part of the Kingdom of God. What a joyous life and happy family we could have if we would all work together to bring the kingdoms of this world to become the Kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ (Revelation 11:15).

    God bless
  2. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Aug 20, 2002
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    Elder Dan Erwin:
    Your 'history' comes from the Roman Catholic Church (RCC). The History outside the RCC shows that EXCEPT IN WESTERN EUROPE, the heyday of the Church was the 6th century (501-600) through the 11th century (1001-1100). Consider my writing:
    Thessalonian: "Isn't it odd that before the deformation (reformation)
    there was the Catholic Church, the Orthodox (which split
    off from the Catholic Church in about 1350) and an odd
    come and go sect or three for 1500 years?"

    Actually that is revisionist history.

    In the year 1001 there were numerous pilgrimages to the
    Holy Land from Europe, Africa, and India to
    celebrate the start of the second Millennium.
    That year the largest Christian Church was the
    East Syrian (Nestorian).
    This church, the Catholic Apostolic Church of the East,
    had over 250 dioceses across Asia and
    12 million adherents. More saints were commanded by this
    church than the Bishop of Rome (Pope, the Roman
    Catholic Church or the
    Bishop of Constantinople/Patriarch of Antioch (Orthodox
    Catholic Apostolic Church, AKA: Easter Orthodox). By 1051 the
    Patriarch of Antioch and the Bishop of Rome excommunicated
    the bishops, priests, and members each of the group.

    During the next 200 years the Catholic Apostolic Church
    of the East was crushed between the Mongols of the
    East and the Muslim from the Southwest.

    Needless to say, it is NOT in the best interests of
    the Papists to have that information be of general knowledge.


    from: http://mb-soft.com/believe/txw/eastern.htm

    The Nestorians are now only a pitiful remnant of what was once a great Church. Long before the heresy from which they have their name, there was a flourishing Christian community in Chaldea and Mesopotamia. According to their tradition it was founded by Addai and Mari (Addeus and Maris), two of the seventy-two Disciples. The present Nestorians count Mar Mari as the first Bishop of Ctesiphon and predecessor of their patriarch. In any case this community was originally subject to the Patriarch of Antioch. As his vicar, the metropolitan of the twin-cities of Seleucia and Ctesiphon (on either side of the Tigris, north-east of Babylon) bore the title of catholicos. One of these metropolitans was present at the Council of Nicaea in 325. The great distance of this Church from Antioch led in early times to a state of semi-independence that prepared the way for the later schism. Already in the fourth century the Patriarch of Antioch waived his right of ordaining the catholicos of Seleucia-Ctesiphon, and allowed him to be ordained by his own suffragans. In view of the great importance of the right of ordaining, as a sign of jurisdiction throughout the East, this fact is important. But it does not seem that real independence of Antioch was acknowledged or even claimed till after the schism. In the fifth century the influence of the famous Theodore of Mopsuestia and that of his school of Edessa spread the heresy of Nestorius throughout this extreme Eastern Church. Naturally, the later Nestorians deny that their fathers accepted any new doctrine at that time, and they claim that Nestorius learned from them rather than they from him ("Nestorius eos secutus est, non ipsi Nestorium", Ebed-Jesu of Nisibis, about 1300. Assemani, "Bibli. Orient.", III, 1, 355). There may be truth in this. Theodore and his school had certainly prepared the way for Nestorius. In any case the rejection of the Council of Ephesus (431) by these Christians in Chaldea and Mesopotamia produced a schism between them and the rest of Christendom. When Babaeus, himself a Nestorian, became catholicos, in 498, there were practically no more Catholics in those parts. From Ctesiphon the Faith had spread across the frontier into Persia, even before that city was conquered bythe Persian king (244). The Persian Church, then, always depended on Ctesiphon and shared its heresy. From the fifth century this most remote of the Eastern Churches has been cut off from the rest of Christendom, and till modern times was the most separate and forgotten community of all. Shut out from the Roman Empire (Zeno closed the school of Edessa in 489), but, for a time at least, protected by the Persian kings, the Nestorian Church flourished around Ctesiphon, Nisibis (where the school was reorganized), and throughout Persia. Since the schism the catholicos occasionally assumed the title of patriarch. The Church then spread towards the East and sent missionaries to India and even China. A Nestorian inscription of the year 781 has been found at Singan Fu in China (J. Heller, S.J., "Prolegomena zu einer neuen Ausgabe der nestorianischen Inschrift von Singan Fu", in the "Verhandlungen des VII. internationalen Orientalistencongresses", Vienna, 1886, pp. 37 sp.). Its greatest extent was in the eleventh century, when twenty-five metropolitans obeyed the Nestorian patriarch. But since the end of the fourteenth century it has gradually sunk to a very small sect, first, because of a fierce persecution by the Mongols (Timur Leng), and then through internal disputes and schisms. Two great schisms as to the patriarchal succession in the sixteenth century led to a reunion of part of the Nestorian Church with Rome, forming the Catholic Chaldean Church. At present there are about 150,000 Nestorians living chiefly in highlands west of Lake Urumiah. They speak a modern dialect of Syriac. The patriarchate descends from uncle to nephew, or to younger brothers, in the family of Mama; each patriarch bears the name Simon (Mar Shimun) as a title. Ignoring the Second General Council, and of course strongly opposed to the Third (Ephesus), they only acknowledge the First Nicene (325). They have a Creed of their own, formed from an old Antiochene Creed, which does not contain any trace of the particular heresy from which their Church is named. In deed it is difficult to say how far any Nestorians now are conscious of the particular teaching condemned by the Council of Ephesus, though they still honour Nestorius, Theodore of Mopsuestia, and other undoubted heretics as saints and doctors. The patriarch rules over twelve other bishops (the list in Silbernagl, "Verfassung", p. 267). Their hierarchy consists of the patriarch, metropolitans, bishops, chorepiscopi, archdeacons, priests, deacons, subdeacons, and readers. There are also many monasteries. They use Syriac liturgically written in their own (Nestorian) form of the alphabet. The patriarch, who now generally calls himself "Patriarch of the East", resides at Kochanes, a remote valley of the Kurdish mountains by the Zab, on the frontier between Persia and Turkey. He has an undefined political jurisdiction over his people, though he does not receive a berat from the Sultan. In any ways this most remote Church stands alone; it has kept a number of curious and archaic customs (such as the perpetual abstinence of the patriarch, etc.) that separate it from other Eastern Churches almost as much as from those of the West. Lately the Archbishop of Canterbury's mission to the Nestorians has aroused a certain interest about them in England.
  3. Thinkingstuff

    Thinkingstuff New Member

    May 14, 2008
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    As I study church history I'm coming into some difficulty about modern perceptions of christianity. You seem to have a decent knowledge I would like to tap into. I've been reading JND Kelly's early Church doctrine as well as the translated early letters of Ignatius, Clement, Barnabas, Polycarp. I've been reading the 1st and second apologies of Justin Martyr, Against Heresies by Ireaneaus and also working my way through the Doctrine and the History of the 7 ecuminical councils by Davis. I also suplement this with translated items from the qumran find and flusser's book on the literature of the second temple period. (I have a bad habit of reading several 5-6 books at a time). I'm trying to get a feel of the time and the thinking of the early church. I find it hard to discuss what I come across at this site because there are automatic assumptions. And I don't want to chase a frivolus rabbit down a silly hole like the pamphelet "trail of blood" or some such thing. Do you have any suggested readings?
  4. Matt Black

    Matt Black Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Feb 25, 2003
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    You can do a lot worse than Kelly, IMO. Congratulations in spotting the cognitive dissonance between early Christianity and modern evangelicalism...