Jim Baker is back on TV

Regarding Tammy Faye..... I don't think she is a changed person at all in fact in my opinion she has become more like Jim Bakker used to be.

Tammy Faye was on TV, was it last season?, on a show called "The Surreal Life". The commercial/preview of that show that I saw was showing her with a male porn star standing there in his underwear. I thought it was disgusting and to think that Tammy Faye was a part of the interaction with that guy and seemed to be laughing about it...... well, I didn't see her as being all that reserved or conservative. She appeared to be quite liberal to me. And it in fact turned my stomach.

It was Tammy Faye who abandoned her husband when he was about to go to jail in order to marry the man she herself had had her eyes on as a married woman and had already developed a relationship with and that was Mr. Messner, who she later married. He was the wealthy businessman who helped develop Heritage Village. I thought she was wrong to divorce Jim when Jim needed her the most, even though she her divorce was a scriptural
divorce (for cause - adultry).

Oh boy....... don't get me started.....

Tammy Faye, Jessica Hahn, Jim Bakker, ____ Messener..... they were all dysfunctional, but that's a whole nother topic all together. </font>[/QUOTE]The Biblical term is sinful, not dysfunctional.

 

AMEN! Preach it!

 

He is Biblically disqualified for ministry. Through his sin, he brought much reproach upon the Kingdom of God and the precious Name of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

There is a major difference between Bakker and Colson; Colson was an unbeliever whereas Bakker was supposedly a believer when he grossly sinned.

Furthermore, Bakker can know forgiveness, if he truly repented, but he may be disqualified from certain ministry. IMHO, he was somewhat self-serving in his book, I Was Wrong.

Somehow, you seem to be saying that we can sin with impunity.

 

He is back at it too. I saw him on one of the smaller stations here in the valley. He is located somewhere in the South. He seemed like the same guy to me, alot of asking for donations throughout his sermon. Alot of crying.

Bro Tony </font>[/QUOTE]Everyone seems to be speculating about what God can do. This is not the question under debate. The question is whether Jim Bakker repented. He said that he did. Are there Biblical fruits of repentance? Or, is this the same old con guy who is savvy enough to know the game is up and the only way to get a foot back in is to blubber and profess repentance while gulling the gullible? Prove your points now that we have defined the issues.

 

paid,

You have lost me, I think we are both saying the same thing. Clarify for me where you think I differ from you.

Bro Tony

 

Yeah, God is glorified in his holy and just judgment of the wicked too. We seem to have forgotten that God’s righteousness and justice is vindicated and his holiness proclaimed whenever He justly judges the sinner. God is NOT glorified whenever sin and wickedness is glossed over. God mandates that we reprove and rebuke the sinners that others may learn and avoid sinning. BTW, if you’re thinking of restoration, this concept is more in line with restoring the relationship to God after repentance and forgiveness, not putting the person back in spiritual leadership or on TV. Scripture is full of examples where individuals were prevented from specific services to God or blessings because of their sin (e.g. Moses, David, et. al.).

 

You know, there's something very "Clintonese" about this whole business. Is this a characteristic of our culture?

 

What about his theology? Does he still teach his humanistic, "make it up as you go along" theology of God wants you to be happy, wealthy and fulfilled. </font>[/QUOTE]Just curious:
Does God want us to be
1.sad
2.broke
3. disillusioned
??????

 

You know, there's something very "Clintonese" about this whole business. Is this a characteristic of our culture? </font>[/QUOTE]I think so. It is clearly in the majority of churches too. Has been for many years. How many churches are personally making disciples, training their members to share their faith and make disciples. The average SBC church has only about 1/3 of its members in attendance on any one Sunday. Where are the other 2/3?

 

You know, there's something very "Clintonese" about this whole business. Is this a characteristic of our culture? </font>[/QUOTE]I think so. It is clearly in the majority of churches too. Has been for many years. How many churches are personally making disciples, training their members to share their faith and make disciples. The average SBC church has only about 1/3 of its members in attendance on any one Sunday. Where are the other 2/3? </font>[/QUOTE]Based on my experience, usually dead or living in another state. The problem is, many churches don't purge their roles very often. For example, the biggest church in our county has almost 3000 members. Their Sunday attendance is approximately 700, maybe 750 on a great day.

 

If we cannot make it into heaven after we sin as Bakker did, then we are all in trouble for all have sinned and came very short ot the Kingdom of God. Bakker said he asked forgiveness and I believe him and accept him as a brother. Swaggert repented and I accept him. Pentacostal preachers are not the only brethren to have failed and fallen into sin. Look at Bob Harrington. He totally messed up his life when he left the ministry and went into sin. I hear that he came back to the Lord.
Stop being so judgmental of folks and let God decide who is or who isnt his.

 

What about his theology? Does he still teach his humanistic, "make it up as you go along" theology of God wants you to be happy, wealthy and fulfilled. </font>[/QUOTE]Just curious:
Does God want us to be
1.sad
2.broke
3. disillusioned
?????? </font>[/QUOTE]Of course, you're playing to the emotions and man's own desire for personal significance and pleasure. Ever read Job? Whatever happened to the idea of sacrifice? Of service (i.e. ministry)? David Livingstone believed and lived it. So did Borden, Jim Elliott, Hudson Taylor, William Carey and a host of others. Just so that we have it straight: we were created for God's glory and pleasure, not our own.

In answer to your inane question, sometimes yes. BTW, you are curious.

 

Judgmental, huh? Somewhere I read:
"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. (II Corinthians 2:12-15)"

What kind of people are so-called Christians who cannot judge between good and evil? Tolerance of sin and unrighteousness is not a virtue. I don't think anyone is saying whether Bakker is truly saved but the problem is that he brought shame and reproach upon the name of Christ. Even though forgiven, he cannot expect to appear on TV and expect everyone to have respect, trust, and confidence in him as a ministry of the Gospel and example to the believers. A drunkard who loses his eye in a drunken brawl can be saved and forgiven but he need not expect God to restore his lost eye.

 

I'm not arguing with you--just ranting against the wickedness of people in the spotlight. They soil the cause of Christianity. Carry on, bro!

 

If Bakker is truly saved, we're not talking about salvation; we're talking about chastisement! Read the following that is referring to the erring Christian.

"For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. (Hebrews 10:26-31)"

Again:
"But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. (Hebrews 12:8)"

Only God knows whether Jim is a son or bastard. Your opinion and mine don't count. Regardless, he has no place in the ministry, so-called, since he has disqualified himself. He is of questionable reputation. Nuff said.

 

Scripture is full of those kind of people.

 

For someone who is decrying being judgmental, you are pretty judgmental! When you tell another that he is judgmental, then you are being judgmental yourself! There's a good Biblical word for this kind of thing--it's called hyprocrisy! It's not a nice word, is it? But, it sure fits the pious prude who judges others for being judgmental. This self-contradition always amuses me.

I sure hope that you won't be so judgmental in the future after being caught with your hand in the cookie jar once. Argue ideas and don't censure people. Be nice.