Jim Baker is back on TV

$150,000, huh? It may not be $150 million dollars but it looks like the same old con game--it's just that the stakes are less. I always believed that if it looks like a skunk and smells like a skunk, then it's a skunk. And gullible Christians are giving God's money to this! This doesn’t say much positive about the discernment of some Christians. I know many honest missionaries who are running all over the country on deputation raising support for going to the mission field and winning souls for Christ. They're not self-aggrandizing or seeking fancy cars and big houses. They just want to get to the mission field and do a work for God. Methinks a Christian’s money would be better spent in supporting local church missionaries. Is it too much to suggest that God will hold Christians accountable for how they invest the money that He has entrusted to them?

 

I am curious about what he preaches that would put him in the same category as Hinn and the like.

 

First of all he left his first wife and married his secretary. Secondly what you see on TV is not the entire service. The TV program is only a part of the entire service. It is a pentecostal church.

I went to one of his services to hear him ppreach and what I saw was shocking. I was disgusted and never listened to him again. He does fit in the same category as the rest of the folks on TBN.

 

I agree with you 100%. That is the reason why there are churches who do send very few foreign missionaries and support the people who are already there doing the work.

A friend of mine who is from a foreign country wanted to go back to his country so he could start a work there. But the SBC told him, "No" because he would not qualify as a foreign missionary. It is sick to send Americans to that same country while he already speaks the language and knows the customs. He told me that the SBC missionaries in that country live like kings.

So now he has gone through another organization that is putting him in charge of other missionaries that are on the field who are in countries who speak his mother tongue.

A friend of mine who was in Ethiopia for many years once told me, “It is amazing what I could do with a few hundred dollars.”

 

Sorry, you must not understand the definition of the word. I am directly confronting the attitudes of people on this board here. I am not backbiting about someone who (a) is not here to defend themselves, and (b) doesn't even know these thing are being posted here about them.

If I get on here and gossip about or condemn Jim Bakker and then turn around and tell you not to, then THAT, my friend, is a hypocrite.

Blaming whole denominations for the actions of some are going on right now on several threads on this board. Just look around....

Absolutely! I have said nothing to be ashamed of when I stand before the Lord and give an account of my words or treatment of another who professes His Name. Can you say the same?

 

Most certainly! Remember you were passing judgment on me (I suppose).

 

Sorry, you must not understand the definition of the word. I am directly confronting the attitudes of people on this board here. I am not backbiting about someone who (a) is not here to defend themselves, and (b) doesn't even know these thing are being posted here about them. </font>[/QUOTE]You totally turned around and misconstrued my argument. Yes, I do understand the meaning of the word—you don’t.

You are sidestepping my points:

1. You are taking a judgmental position after castigating others for being judgmental (Romans 2:1-2 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.)

2. Biblically sustain your argument that (b) one must know what is being said about himself or herself. Paul warned against people (e.g. Alexander, the coppersmith) without their being present or necessarily knowing what was said.

Yes, it is but to castigate others as being judgmental and to make judgment upon them is also being a hypocrite. You violate your own professed principles. I stand by my definition.

Blaming whole denominations for the actions of some are going on right now on several threads on this board. Just look around.... </font>[/QUOTE]Does it make it right? Rightness or wrongness is not determined by current practice

Absolutely! I have said nothing to be ashamed of when I stand before the Lord and give an account of my words or treatment of another who professes His Name. Can you say the same?

</font>[/QUOTE]“For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God. (1 Corinthians 4:4-5)”

 

Same Charismatic theology except he has an older Pentecostal flavor. He is not as extreme in some areas as Hinn, Couch & Co. but he is cut from the same cloth theologically. It's healing, wealth, health, and happiness oriented. There is no concept of self-sacrifice, service, righteousness, etc. It's more about pleasing me than pleasing God!

 

Lorrie, here's info on Hagee:
http://www.pfo.org/jonhagee.htm

 

I agree with you 100%. That is the reason why there are churches who do send very few foreign missionaries and support the people who are already there doing the work.

A friend of mine who is from a foreign country wanted to go back to his country so he could start a work there. But the SBC told him, "No" because he would not qualify as a foreign missionary. It is sick to send Americans to that same country while he already speaks the language and knows the customs. He told me that the SBC missionaries in that country live like kings.

So now he has gone through another organization that is putting him in charge of other missionaries that are on the field who are in countries who speak his mother tongue.

A friend of mine who was in Ethiopia for many years once told me, “It is amazing what I could do with a few hundred dollars.” </font>[/QUOTE]A friend of mine, Eric Franks, is a native missionary in India. He supports a church, Bible college, and related ministries in Bangalore for about $500 per month. BTW, my son is a missionary on deputation for Australia.

 

Lorrie, here is Hagee's web site, so you can read what he believes from the horse's mouth:

http://www.jhm.org/home-new.asp

Definition of castigation - dictionary: To inflict severe punishment on. See Synonyms at punish.
To criticize severely.


If my comment "You people are unbelievable. If this attitude is what you learn at your church, I pity you. " is considered castigation, then someone is being a bit dramatic.

I certainly won't argue with someone who compares himself to Paul. Have a nice day.

 

Lady Eagle: It does not surprise me one little bit. If you notice the great percentage of the vitriolic and hateful and unkind messages come from the IFB ilk. This little knot of believers think they have all truth and everybody else out there including other Baptist are in left field. I have had dealings with these folks for over thirty years and I have never had a good report out of them concerning any other Christians.
They claim to not be a denomination, but even though they arent on paper they are in fact and have a pipe line to each other for they all parrot the same ole tired rhetoric hate and I can only feel sorry for them with pity.
The IFB is the last church group I would ever attend. My sister and her family belong to one and before they started there a number of years ago they were good free Christians but in no time they spouted the same line of rhetoric such as Pentacostals are of the devil, the KJV is the only Bible, blacks cannot join their fellowship although they can visit. I once asked them why they could not join and they said because they only come to make trouble. Geez!! Give me a break...
They invite us to their church when we visit and I say to them, I would be glad to go if you can guarantee me that they will not preach against other Christians from the pulpit. I have yet to get nothing by silence on that one so I will not go with them.
I tell you that if any church I went to wheather they be Pentacostal, Baptist or whatever, the first time some pastor got up there and spoke against the brethren of other churches, that would be my last trip to that facility.
I can always tell from just a few words if a person is IFB so I just try to understand they are just ignorant of Scripture and Gods love for all his children and forgive them and look to a SBC to get a level and balanced debate about anything.

 

I have posted a poll on the polls section and I would appreciate it if the Southern Baptist brethren would stop by and give me some feedback.
Thanks

 

I am an IFB and I would not think of making a statement, like that, about the SBC or any other groups of saved brothers and sisters! I don't think I come across with vitriolic, hateful, and unkind messages! If I do, I expect to be called on it...

With 25,013 posts on here; could you please tell me which of my 'few words' gave my identity as an IFB away?

Thank you for understanding that we (IFB) are all 'ignorant of Scripture' and do not understand about God's love. Now that you know me so well, please do continue to pray for me.

§ue (never turns down a prayer)

 

Sue, I get the drift of what Fat Eagle is saying and I don't take it personal. I have posted on here many times that I was raised IFB and have been IFB most of my life, though right now I belong to a SBC. I don't agree with everything about the SBC, either, but I agree with Fat Eagle that the first time I heard something preached from a pulpit that spoke against the brethren (or sisters) from other churches, I would immediately get up and walk out.

In fact, the last IFB church I was a member of in Ohio, the pastor treaded very carefully when he spoke about Catholics. He has a way to speak the truth in love. Some of our members were former Catholics and they have relatives that are still Catholic, although some profess to be born-again Catholics and some Catholics would visit our church once in awhile. In his wisdom, he knew he could offend and completely turn off a visting Catholic to the Love of Jesus and the Gospel. He was very wise. But after 50 some years as a pastor, 45 years with the same work that was literally built from the ground up against many obstacles in a population that is mainly Catholic, one gains wisdom.

I truly believe we have to tread very carefully here, even in our criticisms of some who are evangelists and preachers. Perhaps when I reach the same level of purity in my walk with the Lord as the Apostle Paul or some of the other Apostles, then I may be more apt to criticize those who are out there on the front lines preaching the Gospel to millions. But I doubt it.

As has been pointed out, Baptists have no edge on righteousness - ALL denominations have people who are imperfect and will not be perfect until He Who is Perfect gives us our Glorified Bodies - keeping in mind that one day we will be called upon to judge angels - I want to be found humble enough for that future task. Any one of us can pick out Scripture verses to justify anything we choose or choose not to do - even to cast aspersion on those who are of a different denomination.

 

I am blessed 16; I was not referring to individuals here for I do not call brothers and sisters out and call names. I was speaking generally and although I am very happy that folks like you are out there, I wish all the IFB brethren felt as you do but in my experience I have not personally spoken to IFB people without getting the feeling they were arrogant and unloving towards fellow Christians.
In the South in particular also the problem with their racial feelings have been negative but I have seen some good changes of late with Bob Jones University and others.
Lady Eagle: Good post and I concur with you.

 

Same Charismatic theology except he has an older Pentecostal flavor. He is not as extreme in some areas as Hinn, Couch & Co. but he is cut from the same cloth theologically. It's healing, wealth, health, and happiness oriented. There is no concept of self-sacrifice, service, righteousness, etc. It's more about pleasing me than pleasing God! </font>[/QUOTE]This is very interesting. Have you read his book: "I was wrong"? It tells his story while in prison and how he changed his beliefs and reading the Bible. He claims the Bible does NOT preach a prosper oriented message and that wealth to a Christian does not mean material wealth. He was very sincere about this conversion and discussed it, claiming to have read the Bible through for the first time ever in prison.

Now, I might add something. Many statements in his book are in direct conflict with the investigative reporters story on the PTL organization and accusations of homosexuality and other issues. So, whether or not he is telling the truth, it would be beyond those of us who do not know him personally.

When he got out of prison, I do know he worked helping people on the street, but now that he is on the way back to the lime-light; he may be going back to his old tricks. (Dog back to his vomit, for Biblical reference).

BUT, I cannot say this for certain since I have not watched his new television programs.

 

amen Plain Bill.

 

Same Charismatic theology except he has an older Pentecostal flavor. He is not as extreme in some areas as Hinn, Couch & Co. but he is cut from the same cloth theologically. It's healing, wealth, health, and happiness oriented. There is no concept of self-sacrifice, service, righteousness, etc. It's more about pleasing me than pleasing God! </font>[/QUOTE]This is very interesting. Have you read his book: "I was wrong"? It tells his story while in prison and how he changed his beliefs and reading the Bible. He claims the Bible does NOT preach a prosper oriented message and that wealth to a Christian does not mean material wealth. He was very sincere about this conversion and discussed it, claiming to have read the Bible through for the first time ever in prison.</font>[/QUOTE]There's some confusion here. Are we speaking of Jim Bakker or John Hagee?

And no one knows why he did what was apparently a good thing--working with street people. On the other hand, the Pharisees did their alms before men to receive praise from men.

Read his book--considered it a waste of time--seemed self-serving under the guise of humility and repentance. My take on his general attitude: "It was bad but not that bad--people just don't really understand how it was." There was lots of sentimentality but very little Biblical truth. Of course, this is what Jim majored upon--emotions! I failed to find very little Biblical knowledge or understanding in his book. Let's face it--he's not spiritual, but emotional. Even though supposedly a Bible college graduate, he is bankrupt in Bible wisdom. He's celeb status--that's all. Why should we listen to him? Entertainment? Yep, that's it. He has great human appeal and he can entertain. Why are we--supposedly some Christians are--promoting Jim Bakker? Why doesn't he steal away and serve God quietly if he is sincere? Why does Jim Bakker deserve one dime of our money and support?