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Job 44:17

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by HAMel, Apr 26, 2017.

  1. HAMel

    HAMel Well-Known Member
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    "He moveth his tail like a cedar: The sinews of his stones are wrapped together."

    A Behemoth? Like in Dinosaur?

    Was Job speaking literally or figuratively?

    Did the Dinosaur's go away due to the Flood? I've heard yes, they did but if so, how did Job know of them?
     
  2. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    There are no dinosaurs and there are no unicorns in the bible.

    Rob
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. maddog

    maddog Member
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    Dinosaurs are a myth
     
  4. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Of course there are. We even get a pretty good description of the unicorn:

    Num 23:22 God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.

    Num 24:8 God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn: he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows.

    Job 39:9 Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib? (Can't be domesticated.)

    Job 39:10 Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee? (Again, can't be domesticated.)

    Psalm 92:10 But my horn shalt thou exalt like the horn of an unicorn: I shall be anointed with fresh oil. (It has a tusk.)

    Pretty good description of the Rhinoceros Unicornis, once indigenous to most of south western and south central Asia. Now only narrowly surviving in northern India.
     
  5. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Seriously? Those mythical bones sure look real to me.
     
  6. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Here is the whole context in Job Chapter 40. Actually it is God speaking, rather than Job. 15 Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox. 16 Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly. 17 He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together. 18 His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron. 19 He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him. 20 Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play. 21 He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens. 22 The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about. 23 Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth. 24 He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

    Obviously part of the language is intended to be figurative, for example when God uses simile to compare the strength of the behemoth's bones to "strong pieces of brass" and "bars of iron." But contextually I see no reason to suppose it was not a real animal with which Job would have been familiar.

    Re'em (translated unicorn in the KJV and wild ox in NIV‎) is some kind of animal that is mentioned nine times in the Bible (Numbers 23:22, Numbers 24:8; Deuteronomy 33:17; Job 39:9-10; Psalms 22:21, Psalms 29:6, Psalms 92:10; and Isaiah 34:7). We know it wasn't the mythical unicorn, but that is not the only meaning of the English word. Wild ox seems a little lame for some of the descriptions of the critter. Rhinoceros could fit well. Nevertheless...

    I can't speak for others, but for myself I am not certain what animals some of the animals mentioned in the Bible were. Perhaps some of them are now extinct. It's really not that critical, although some people try to use the unknown to create doubt and overthrow the faith of some.
     
  7. Happy

    Happy Well-Known Member
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    Sure there are. In scripture there are KINDS of things.
    Ignoring what Adam "named" particular "kinds" of animals,
    and ignoring what "Mankind" has further "named" "kinds" of animals,

    KINDS of animals has not changed.

    In Scripture, what applies to a specific kinds of animals satisfies their description;
    ie smooth hoof, split hoof; ie chews cud; ie land or sea; ie land and sea; horns, no horns; ie scales;
    ie "great" meaning very large; flys; friendly to mankind, threatening to mankind; food for mankind, not food for mankind.....etc.

    In Scripture there were "great" (very large) land animals. ie generally called Behemoths.
    In Scripture there were "great" (very large) sea animals. ie generally called Leviathan.

    It was not "necessary" for men of Scripture to give large land beasts or sea beasts particular "names", BECAUSE, they were taught of their "surroundings" and what to be cautious of, by the behavior of the beasts.

    Were there beasts in Scripture with "A" horn? Yes.
    Were there beasts in Scripture with "A" horn known to have great "strength" ? Yes.

    Is the mythical beast that mankind has made the "unicorn" relevant in understanding Scripture? No.

    Were there beasts in Scripture that were large, to be cautious of, and seemed to breath fire? Yes.
    Does mankind know of large beasts they have "named" dinosaurs? Yes
    Does mankind teach such large beasts "breathed" fire? No.
    Does mankind teach "methane" gas ignites into a flame? Yes
    Does mankind teach "methane" gas is expelled from some KINDS of animals? Yes

    Could a group of large land beasts expel "methane" gas that would appear as "fire breathing" animals? Yes

    Did Scripture reveal large land beasts appearing to breath fire, and to be cautious? Yes.

    It's simply a matter of putting oneself into the limited knowledge of an early man and understanding in the manner he understood things, by how he described things, ie ~ "kindleth coals" ie ~ blow methane gas over coals and you will see a flame.

    Num.23

    1. [22] God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.
    Job.40

    1. [15] Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
    Job 41

    19] Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.
    [20] Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.
    [21] His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.


    OT man is given the basic facts.
    As man matures, generationally and individually, we find God created in the beginning this world and its things. Whether or not EVERY man is privy to SEE all of Gods creations; every generation is given knowledge that things EVERY generation that IS privy to SEE of Gods creations, have something to SEE that is compared (by its power, strength, uniqueness, attributes) TO God.






     
  8. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    God was speaking to Job about these creatures and it was in chapter 40.

    What were the behemoth and the leviathan? I don't know. I have vacillated over years as to what they were and I have come to a decision.

    It doesn't matter. The whole point of that conversation between God and Job was to show Job that he was a helpless gnat compared to these two creatures and so were all other humans.

    That being, how could Job dare to question or come against the God who made those two creatures? Just as those creatures were phenomenally above Job in power to the point where Job could never best them, God is light years in power above those two huge and deadly creatures....

    ....ergo, Job had no business confronting God the way that he did.
     
  9. Linda Davis

    Linda Davis New Member

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  10. Happy

    Happy Well-Known Member
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    (Behemoth) Large land animal, yes. Like in Dinosaur? A Large land animal, yes.

    Literally

    Yes

    Gen 7
    21] And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
    [22] All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

    Noah took with him upon the ark KINDS of animals. Dinosaur's are a KIND of animal. A reptile, has scales, breathes, lives on land.

    Noah did not have to TAKE a huge thousands of pounds animal upon the ark, but rather he did take upon the ark, KINDS of animals.

    There were almost 300 years between the end of the flood, animals released, and Abrahams birth. So, is it plausible that once kinds of animals were released after the flood, that Abraham could have been privy to SEE a HUGE land animal during his 175 yr life-time? Scripture says he did.
     
  11. maddog

    maddog Member
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