John 1:9 "enlightens every man"

Have all men known of Jesus?

I will take a stab at this, although my answer may not satisfy you. I believe that God only holds a man accountable for what is revealed to him. The first mention of Jesus in the Bible was the promise to Adam and Eve in the garden.

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

This was the first promise of the Messiah to come. He would bruise the head of the serpent (Satan) and the serpent would bruise his heel. The devil thought he had won when he had Jesus crucified on the cross, he did not count on the resurrection. But Jesus defeated Satan and the power of sin and death by the cross and resurrection.

And perhaps God also showed Adam that blood must be shed for the forgiveness of sins, because we see Abel offering an animal sacrifice. Cain offered of the fruit of the ground (works) and was not accepted. And God showed this to Cain.

Gen 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.
4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:
5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.
6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Perhaps Cain did not understand that blood had to be shed for the forgiveness of sins, I do not know. But Cain did know that Abel's sacrifice was accepted and could have offered a like sacrifice and been accepted.

The point is, God has revealed himself to all men from the beginning. We see later that Noah offered an animal sacrifice.

Gen 8:20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

And of course, Noah taught his children to offer these sacrifices. And the knowledge of God, or at least what had been revealed at this time was passed down through their children, from who came all men on earth.

So, all men have some knowledge of God, although it can be perverted by man and often is.

But I personally believe that God knows the hearts of all man and will reveal himself to those who sincerely seek to know God.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

A man cannot come to God unless he first believes that God truly exists. Not just a head conviction, but a deep and personal heartfelt belief. And a man must also believe that God is good, that he can be found of those who sincerely and diligently seek him.

God revealed himself slowly over time to men. Most scholars believe Job to be the oldest book in the Bible, and Job knew of a coming Redeemer. He also knew of the resurrection.

Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:
27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.

There is a lot of doctrine in these few verses. Job knew his redeemer was alive at the moment, and that he would stand upon the earth in the latter day. And Job knew though his body be destroyed he would see this redeemer in his flesh. And he knew he would see the redeemer with his own eyes. So Job knew of the coming saviour, and knew of the resurrection.

So, I believe all men have some knowledge of God and always have. One of the best proofs of Noah's flood is that similar stories have been passed down by over 200 ancient civilizations. The ancient Chinese, the American Indians, people seperated by great distances and oceans all knew of the man in the boat with the animals.

Here are some civilizations old and new that have stories of a worldwide flood, usually involving a man with animals aboard a boat.

See the next post for list.,,

 

Civilizations old and new with flood stories, usually involving a man in a boat with animals.

 

Excellent post!! :applause:

This is in fact how I have explained it to atheists who claim God is unrighteous for sending everyone to hell for not hearing the gospel. In fact all men have revelation of God in creation, in accounts such as Abraham, Moses, the Jews..etc IF they have not heard the gospel they will be judged on what they did with the light God had given them, whether that be small or great. Of course there is no guarantee they will be saved but they certainly will be held accountable nevertheless. The fool says in his/her heart there is no God, why (??) because he/she is totally depraved? No. Its because they can look at the creation of God's hands and say "Surely there is a God", or say "There is no God", they are responsible for what they did with what the level of light God had given them. :type:

Darren

 

Darren

Oh yeah, men know. Try walking down a street in Tehran with a Bible and see if they know about Jesus Christ.

However, we must still teach the gospel. People are born everyday. And many have not had the simple gospel preached to them. Many have been led astray by false teachings that abound everywhere. So while everyman knows some things, we are to teach the gospel to every creature.

 

Idolatry and false religions plague the world as always has been the case. But still God held those responsible for worshipping idols, how much revelation of the true God they had, who knows...

Darren

 

Yes, but in Acts we see how brilliiantly Paul used idolatry to teach the gospel.

Acts 17:16 Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was stirred in him, when he saw the city wholly given to idolatry.
17 Therefore disputed he in the synagogue with the Jews, and with the devout persons, and in the market daily with them that met with him.
18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
19 And they took him, and brought him unto Areopagus, saying, May we know what this new doctrine, whereof thou speakest, is?
20 For thou bringest certain strange things to our ears: we would know therefore what these things mean.
21 (For all the Athenians and strangers which were there spent their time in nothing else, but either to tell, or to hear some new thing.)
22 Then Paul stood in the midst of Mars' hill, and said, Ye men of Athens, I perceive that in all things ye are too superstitious.
23 For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you.
24 God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;
25 Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things;
26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again of this matter.
33 So Paul departed from among them.
34 Howbeit certain men clave unto him, and believed: among the which was Dionysius the Areopagite, and a woman named Damaris, and others with them.

First, Paul argues creation shows there is a God, and that he is greater than any graven image or temple, and that a man can give God nothing he already has.

He tells the Greeks that he is not just God of the Jews, but all men.

And contrary to Calvinism, Paul shows that a man can seek after God in verse 27.

Then Paul lowers the boom and starts preaching on sin. First, they must repent of worshipping idols and graven images. Then he tells them about the great Judge who was raised from the dead.

Some mocked, but some believed. And this is the pattern, first a person hears the word of God, then believes, then receives the Spirit.

 

Unless you missed it, I was agreeing with you. What point are you taking to reply to me this way? I was agreeing with you from the first. raying:

Darren

 

Benefactor, et al.

Benefactor wrote:

Here we go. Unfortunately, you didn't deal with the things I said or answer the questions I asked. Instead you turned to misrepresenting something I said. I never said nor implied that the meaning of the participle was "different." So it appears to me that you are turning to the ad hominem argument and accusing me of something I never said, but it is possible you misunderstood. So, I'll explain again.

The participle is actually an "Adjectival Participle" because it is arthrous, meaning it has the article. The adjectival participle is probably the most common participial form in the New Testament.

This participle is part of a dependent clause modifying "but to all who did receive Him." The Adjectival Participle and the clause modifies and explains what John is referring to.

There is not, nor can there be, any idea of progression. The participle and the clause are, by definition, meant for clarification, not progression.

Furthermore, your basic understanding of participles is just that, basic. There really is no alternative to working through a text and translating it yourself. Certainly Robertson is a good start but what you seem not to understand is that a participle, while noun-like; verb-like; adjective-like; adverb-like; etc., is neither a noun, verb, adjective, or adverb. A participle is its own animal. So while it shares characteristics of a verb it is most decidedly not a verb.

In fact, in Greek, the verbs become the main points--that's how the Authors make their points (ie. the "Make Disciples" of the Great Commission; Go, Baptizing, Teaching, are all participles) and the participles add the dimension of "how." So, John includes this particular participle to clarify who the "all who did receive Him" are--they are the ones who believed on His name.

As I have said before, I absolutely believe and affirm that man must believe in Christ in order to be saved.

Now, back to the OP. Again, your presupposition about the light (Christ) enlightening every man who comes into the world cannot be supported by the common practice of John himself. John uses this idiom (come into the world) several times and it never refers to anyone other than Christ. So, again you can argue your idea of salvation, but you can't use this passage. John himself, in the rest of his own gospel, stands against you and I don't think you'd suggest you know more than he did about what he meant.

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

To All

Ok, let's assume, for the sake of argument, Benefactor and those in agreement with him are correct.

Explain the following:

1. Abraham clearly didn't believe first. Why did God choose him?

2. Explain "you must be born-again" in John 3:3.

3. Explain Acts 13:48 "...and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed."

Blessings,

The Archangel

 

And here I was thinking christians could understand the Word of God without a Masters Degree, my bad... raying:

Darren

 

Darren,

You wrote:

Now this is just uncalled for. I have been nothing but respectful to you, giving you the benefit of the doubt precisely because you claim to be a Christian and are, therefore, a brother (or perhaps a sister?) in Christ.

Certainly I would not suggest what you have stated.

I certainly would expect you treat me and all the others on the board with the respect a fellow Christian deserves.

Exhortation concluded.

Many Blessings to you!

The Archangel

 

1. Why did God choose Abraham as opposed to Bubba or Roberto? God knew Abraham would follow and believe Him, God chose to have mercy on Abraham in the same way God chose to show mercy upon Noah and his family. Was Abraham Totally Depraved and needed to be regenerated? I don't think so.

2. No one can "see" the Kingdom of God or enter without first being born again. God gives those whom believe in Him a new nature, a new heart, HE quickens them once they believe in Him...etc

3. Corporate election. Simple as that. God has appointed all men to eternal life by and through believing in Jesus in order to meet God's terms of Salvation. The appointment is to eternal life to any whom would believe.

Darren

 

Not meaning to be rude, just making a point. Not every christian has a Masters Degree in Greek but I'm sure they can understand the Word of God all the same. :smilewinkgrin:

Darren

 

So, apparently, did your English teacher. It's bores, not boars.

Substituting for the English Cop.

 

I don't question that all creation tells of the existence of a Creator.

That is not quite the same as all creation hearing of Jesus, his life, death and resurrection. Not quite the same as hearing about sin, righteousness and judgment. Not quite the same as pointing men to Christ as Savior and Lord.

I'm wondering about those Athenians who died before Paul arrived to tell them about Jesus. I wonder about those who died elsewhere in Greece while Paul was preaching to the philosophers on Mars Hill about the Unknown God. I wonder why Paul told them that the unknown God, one they didn't know about before, had a son whose name is Jesus, who rose from the dead.

Listen to Luke as he records Paul's confrontation in the marketplace:
Acts 17:18 "Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans and of the Stoics, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? Other some, He seemeth to be setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto them Jesus and the resurrection."

In the very next verse, they brought him up to the Areopagus and asked him "what may we know about this new doctrine you're talking about? Because you're bringing strange things to our ears."

Up to that point, they had not heard of Jesus and the resurrection. This was new stuff. Stuff, incidentally, heard only in the synagogue, the marketplace and on Mars Hill.

This is why I find it difficult to accept that every human has heard about Jesus.