John 3:16 cf. John 17:9b

Correct but it does :thumbs:

And if that is you thought then you have not been paying attention. Very few would state world means 'all men' every time the term world is used, and those who do are a very small minority.With respect to the term 'all', what is disputed is not the definition of the term 'all' but the Cals 'rendition' of when 'all means everyone' or 'all of a group within everyone'

If it is against, then it contradicts what is believed.. the argument which is against, is in fact FOR what they believe.

 

Reply to Iconoclast:

Mr. Pink is utterly wrong on this point. But lets narrow my response to how John uses the term, I say only as "fallen mankind" or the "corrupt system of fallen mankind." I say either of these two meanings can be inserted for every use by John of "kosmos."

Now lets review the "Pink" references from John.

(1) John 13:1 "planet earth" or fallen mankind? Those He loved were in the world and so the meaning is departing from mankind, not from planet earth.

(2) John 12:31 presents "kosmos" as "corrupt system of fallen mankind."

(3) 1 John 5:19 refers to the whole world and thus to fallen mankind in the power of the evil one.

(4) John 15:8 refers to fallen mankind hating believers. Believers are "in the world" but not "of the world" and therefore to not share in the corrupt value system of fallen mankind. But in a general sense, all believers were once part of fallen mankind, and therefore can be included under the general reference in most verses.

(5) John 5:24 does not mention "kosmos."

(6) Mr. Pink says, "Kosmos" is used of believers only: John 1:29; 3:16-17; 6:33; 12;47"
(a) John 1:29 says Jesus takes away the sin of the world. Fallen mankind has the sin that Jesus takes away. What Mr. Pink tries to do here is take the sinner out of the world and then take the sin of the sinner who is no longer part of the world. LOL John is referring to fallen mankind!

(b) John 3:16 refers to fallen mankind, and whoever of fallen mankind who believes in Christ will be saved, thus God is reconciling the world one person at a time. Again we have the fallacy of Calvinists adding "everyone of" the world to the passage and therefore limiting it to believers, when we can add "some of" the world and leaving the meaning of the word as fallen mankind. Their agenda is to rewrite scripture to pour limited atonement into it using the device of claiming "kosmos" means this in this verse and the opposite in that verse. No sale.

(c) John 6:33 again presents the assumption that world must mean everyone of the world, rather than some of the world. Everyone saved was part of "fallen mankind" when they were saved. No need to change the meaning of "Kosmos." No need to say we must save every person when we say we save fallen mankind, when we save one person, we have saved fallen mankind, just not all of it, but a part of fallen mankind remains fallen mankind.

(d) John 12:47 says Jesus did not come to judge the world but to save the world, which fits perfectly with Jesus did not come to judge fallen mankind but to save fallen mankind.

(7) 1 John 4:19 says we love God because He first loved us. This is fully consistent with John 3:16, where God so loved the world of fallen mankind, that He gave His one of a kind Son, so that whoever among fallen mankind who believes in Jesus shall not perish but have eternal life. Everyone that turns to Jesus is drawn by His love for us, fallen mankind.

Do not let the Calvinists rewrite scripture and say if you do not buy it then there is something wrong with you. Twaddle folks, pure twaddle.

 

Allen

Allan I am sorry I always want to put a E instead of an A in your name. I was thinking about what you said of how the old-testament views world.

I can just imagining how the Jews felt. This one who said He was sent by God. The God of Jacob, the God of Abraham said God loved the world not the Jews, not the elected Jews, but the world (The heathens.)

I don't think they liked it either.