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Featured John 5:25-29??

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by convicted1, May 7, 2012.

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  1. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    In verse 25 it indeed means some will not listen. This is not speaking of persons in the grave, but living people who are spiritually dead.

    Verse 28 is very different, it is speaking of persons who are physically dead in the grave. In this verse it says ALL that are in the graves shall hear.

    Jhn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

    So, verse 25 and verse 28 are very different. Verse 25 is speaking of living persons, though they are spiritually dead. They can hear the voice of the Son of God, and those that hear (believe) shall live. Those that refuse to hear shall not live.

    Verse 28 is speaking of physically dead persons in the grave, both those who are spiritually alive when they died, and those that were spiritually dead when they died. This verse says ALL that are in the graves shall hear the voice of the Son of God.

    Verse 25 is speaking of hearing to life, verse 28 is speaking of rising out of the grave. Verse 25 is being born again, verse 28 is the resurrection.

    Fact is, in both verses 25 and 28 it is shown that THE DEAD (spiritually dead) can hear the voice of Jesus.
     
    #61 Winman, May 8, 2012
  2. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    To quote Dave Hester from Storage Wars, "Yuuuuuuup!!"
     
    #62 convicted1, May 8, 2012
  3. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    :applause::applause::applause::applause:


    You stated this better than I did in the OP. Hearing God IS hearing God. It's been bandied around how no one can hear God unless they first be quickened, and yet, the dead(all) shall hear when they come forth from their graves.
     
    #63 convicted1, May 8, 2012
  4. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Yes Willis. The greatest error of Calvinism is that it teaches a person has life without Jesus. In Calvinism, a person does not obtain life by believing on Jesus, Jesus is cut out of the picture. They teach that the Father gives you life without Jesus. Oh, they will then include Jesus, but after you have already been made spiritually alive and born again, meeting the requirement to see heaven they so often argue.

    If God regenerates a man before conversion, then for that brief moment of time it takes the regenerate man to hear, understand, and believe the gospel you have a born again person who is still dead in trespasses and sins! This is absolutely impossible.

    Some Calvinists teach that a person can be regenerated or born again for years and even decades before they believe on Jesus. This would be a person who is spiritually alive, born again for years, and at the very same time is dead in sins! Absurd!

    Calvinism is a mess, it is illogical and utterly against all scripture. All scripture says you must believe to have life.
     
    #64 Winman, May 8, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2012
  5. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Winman

    You are either abysmally ignorant of the Doctrine of Grace or the above is a flat out lie. The following Scripture prove what I say is true.

    Ephesians 1:3-6, KJV
    3. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
    4. According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
    5. Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
    6. To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

    God the Father blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

    God the Father chose us in him [Jesus Christ] before the foundation of the world.

    God the Father predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ

    God the Father made us accepted in the beloved [Jesus Christ].

    Ephesians 2:4-6, NASB
    4. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
    5. even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
    6. and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus,

    God the Father made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus,

    No Incarnate Son, Jesus Christ, No life! No God the Father, no life! No Grace, No life! Can you understand this Winman.

    Furthermore, Winman, in my post #57 I show that faith is an integral part of Salvation. That post is actually a response to your continued mantra
     
    #65 OldRegular, May 8, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: May 8, 2012
  6. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    You can say whatever you want, Calvinism teaches that God gives life to a person before they believe on Jesus. Calvinism teaches that a person cannot possibly believe on Jesus unless God has first given them life. It is not Jesus that saves you in Calvinism, for unless God elected you and regenerated you, you could not possibly believe on Christ.

    And as I wrote before, many Calvinists claim a person can be born again for years, even decades before they actually believe on Jesus. This would be a born again, spiritually alive person who is dead in all their trespasses and sins for years!

    Jhn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name

    The scriptures teach that no man has life until he believes on Jesus Christ. Calvinism is false doctrine.
     
    #66 Winman, May 8, 2012
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    :thumbs::wavey::applause::thumbs:
     
    #67 Iconoclast, May 8, 2012
  8. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Brother P4T,

    Where's the "rod of correction" for your fellow DoG'er at?

    He does this a lot as well, but this is never brought up...........
     
    #68 convicted1, May 9, 2012
  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Yes Willis...I do this when the poster is correct...not in error;):laugh:;):wavey:

    Willis...did you answer post 26 in the other thread??
     
    #69 Iconoclast, May 9, 2012
  10. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    No...i think you have not aknowledged the difference the word savingly makes. Then you say you followed the thread,and yet you see no one saying it is just a physical hearing they are speaking of. I think you are not reading it correctly.Willis appeals to the dead in the graves hearing the caLL TO RESURRECTION which has not hing to do with savingly hearing the gospel.
     
    #70 Iconoclast, May 9, 2012
  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Webdog...an unsaved person does not have the Holy Spirit.
    the Holy Spirit reveals Spiritual truth......

    An unsaved person...can only hear the physical words....there will be no effect...because his spirit ....IS DEAD:thumbs::wavey: a corpse...
     
    #71 Iconoclast, May 9, 2012
  12. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    And no one has the Holy Ghost prior to being saved either. :thumbs::thumbs:
     
    #72 convicted1, May 9, 2012
  13. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Okay Brother, I asked this post to a Brother in another thread, that goes hand-in-hand with what you posted here:


    Now, in all of these question posed, the person(s) in question were unregenerated, and yet God communed with them. Please try to explain how these "corpses" spoke with God Almighty, and them "dead in sins and trespasses".
     
    #73 convicted1, May 9, 2012
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  14. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast Well-Known Member
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    Willis,

    I speak with dead men walking everyday.....it is called the truckstop:wavey:
    yesterday spoke with two dead men from saudi arabia ..in a truckstop....
    in the other thread...I posted a message...where it is explained very nicely...

    I also explained that they need the Spirit....then they would not be dead...
    who says dead men cannot speak??? God spoke to them......communion is for believers, not un believers
     
    #74 Iconoclast, May 9, 2012
  15. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    God spoke with them, and yet they were dead. They were dead "corpses", and yet they spoke with God. How then were these "corpses" which can do nothing, BTW, able to commune with Almighty God?

    Cain was dead spiritually, and he spoke with God. God went so far as to place a seal upon him. Explain how a "corpse", that can do nothing, and yet when that "corpse" spoke, God place a seal upon him. Again, please explain how a "corpse" was able to get a seal placed upon him when God spoke with him.
     
    #75 convicted1, May 9, 2012
  16. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Verses 25-26 and vs 27-29 are speaking of two different events.
    The first is the time that 'Now is,' the Gospel age inaugurated by the Lord Jesus Christ when the Gospel (Mark 1:15) is to be preached to 'every creature under heaven.' Those who hear the Gospel and receive it savingly will 'live,' that is. have eternal life. However, dead men do not hear by themselves (Rom 3:11ff). Christ has life in Himself and gives that life to whomever He wills. Do please pause here and read Matt 11:25-27.

    Verses 27-29 refer to the Return of Christ and the Resurrection. Yes, on that day ALL men will hear the word of God and rise to judgement.

    Steve
     
    #76 Martin Marprelate, May 9, 2012
  17. Winman

    Winman Active Member

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    Old Regular quoted Ephesians from the NASB, but he does not believe what it says.

    This verse says that even when we were spiritually dead in our transgressions, we have been made alive together with Christ.

    Old Regular doesn't believe that, and neither do any Calvinists. Calvinists believe a person is quickened or made alive before their sins are forgiven, and they are made alive without Christ.

    The scriptures say you are dead in transgressions until you are joined together with Christ. It says we are made ALIVE TOGETHER WITH CHRIST.

    No one is joined to Christ until they believe on him. No one is forgiven their sins until they believe, we are justified by faith.

    Calvinism says this;

    Regenerated, made alive (no Christ) ----> Hears ----> Understands ----> Believes on Jesus (joined with Christ)/ Sins forgiven

    The scriptures teach;

    Hears ----> Understands ----> Believes on Jesus (joined with Christ)/Sins forgiven ----> Regenerated, made alive WITH Christ

    Some Calvinists teach a person can be regenerated for years before they believe on Jesus. Until you believe on Jesus your sins are not forgiven and you are still dead in transgressions. So, they teach a person is spiritually alive for years, and yet is still dead in their transgressions at the very same time.

    Calvinists do not believe we are made alive with Christ, they believe a person is made alive by the Father without Christ. Then after being made alive by the Father they have the ability to hear, understand, and believe on Jesus at some later time. It may be just moments later that they believe on Jesus, or perhaps years, but they believe you are already alive before you believe and your sins are forgiven.

    Calvinism is false doctrine, they do not believe what Ephesians 2:5 says.
     
    #77 Winman, May 9, 2012
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  18. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    This is precisely what I am getting at. Why can they hear, being unregenerated lying in their graves(w/o the Holy Ghost's enabling them), but not so while alive on planet earth. God's call IS God's call, whether He is calling them while alive or from the dead.
     
    #78 convicted1, May 9, 2012
  19. AresMan

    AresMan Active Member
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    Does anyone successfully resist God's call at the last day?
     
    #79 AresMan, May 9, 2012
  20. convicted1

    convicted1 Guest

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    Nope. The dead in "sins and trespasses and sins" don't and they weren't "enabled" by the Holy Ghost, either.
     
    #80 convicted1, May 9, 2012
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