Yes, the one who was drawn. The "him" (singular).
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John 6:44
Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Revmitchell, Dec 28, 2017.
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InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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Rather, God deals with the individual, drawing the individual, and the individual will be raised. A personal hope, a personal thankfulness, and a personal testimony of each individual. -
RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member
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Not can.
Not might.
Not maybe.
WILL! Unequivocally WILL. -
RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member
Didn't I read recently someone quoting RC Sproul saying theology must be done on a razor's edge? I agree such is true, if you insist on an interpretation.
The OP passage does not equate or conflate being drawn and coming as one and the same, nor that both must occur. A passage explicitly stating that all those drawn are forced to come would be helpful for those holding that position. This is not such a passage. It only indicates that the drawing precedes the coming. It does not say that the coming is sure, only enabled. What is sure is that one who is drawn by the Father and comes to Jesus will be raised.
Besides, Jesus said he would draw all men to himself (John 12:32, see below), which might then lead to the conclusion that all will be saved. Or you could claim that "all" does not mean "all" there, but that might prove inconsistent. Or you could claim that the Son drawing is not the same as the Father drawing, but then questions may arise regarding unity of the Godhead--obviously unacceptable. Or you could try to argue that the "if" in John 12:32 has not been fulfilled, but that cannot be true.
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. (John 12:32) -
Charles Spurgeon, "Gathering to the Center":
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Iconoclast Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
Revmitchell,
All the Father gives to me, shall come....it says nothing about anyone randomly coming on their own.:Cautious:Cautious:Cautious
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RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member
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InTheLight Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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It is:
1) The Father draws - no one comes that is not drawn by the Father.
2) The Father who also sent Christ draws - significant in identification that the same Father that draws also sent the Son.
3) The Son will raise all the individuals that the Father draws.
Christ stated elsewhere that, because of obedience to the Father’s will in being crucified, He also has the general ability and will “draw all men,” however, I don’t recall that Christ ever expressed the statement of His draw as that promised resurrection statement of the Father’s drawing. But I could be wrong. -
This is significant because, as later posts revealed, RevM was basing the human condition and the effort by humans as the basis for also being included in self ability to the coming, and not totally that of the draw of the Father.
It was shown (by multiple folks) that he was adding something to the Scripture rendering that was not expressed in the purity of that Scripture.
When, if he had stayed with this original post and acknowledged the limits the Scripture expressed, he could have found agreement, he soon departed from the basic truth presented in John 6:44. -
RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member
RT& -
Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member
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RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member
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However, I consider that we would disagree on how effective or the end results of the draw. -
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Revmitchell Well-Known MemberSite Supporter
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