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John 8:24, 28, 58 - Jesus Christ IS YHWH

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Apr 19, 2021.

  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    “I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins…Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things” (verses 24, 28. KJV)

    In these two verses, Jesus says, that if we do not believe that He is “I AM”, that we will die in our sins.

    Firstly, Bible Versions like the KJV, are quite wrong when they translate the Greek, “εγω ειμι”, by “I am he”. The word “he” is in italics showing that it is not in the Greek. So, why did they insert this?

    Jesus uses “εγω ειμι” three times in this chapter of John’s Gospel. Twice in the above verses, and once in verse 58.

    What exactly does Jesus mean, especially in verse 24, where He says, that people who did not believe that He is “εγω ειμι”, would die in their sins? This is the same as saying that these will not be saved, and end up in eternal punishment. Clearly Jesus says what He does, as a warning.

    In Matthew 14, when Jesus came to His Disciples “walking on the sea” (26), and the Disciples became “troubled” by what they were seeing. Jesus reassures them by saying, “ But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid” (27). The words in English, “it is I”, are in the Greek, “εγω ειμι”, I AM!. In John chapter 18, when they came to arrest Jesus, He said to them “εγω ειμι” (5), then in verse 6 we read this response from those who heard this, “As soon then as he had said unto them, εγω ειμι, they went backward, and fell to the ground”

    But, what does Jesus mean in John 8:24, by the words: “if you believe not that “εγω ειμι””?

    There can be no doubt, that Jesus here, as He does in verse 58, claim for Himself Absolute Deity, that is, YHWH. For He has in mind the Words Spoken to Moses in Exodus chapter 3, where we read, “’Ehyeh ’ăsher ’ehyeh”, which is best translated from the Hebrew grammar:

    “and God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM…I AM hath sent me unto you”

    (Dr A Benisch; Jewish School and Family Bible, Vol. II)

    “And God said unto Moses: ‘I AM THAT I AM’… I AM hath sent me unto you.’.’”

    (The Holy Scriptures According to the Masoretic Text, A New Translation. The Jewish Publication Society of America. 5677-1917)

    “And God said unto Moses: ‘I am that I am’… I am hath sent me unto you.’

    (Hebrew-English Tanakh, The Jewish Bible, Varda Books. Jewish Publication)

    The words in the Greek Version of the Old Testament, the Septuagint (LXX), is important:

    Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν”, literally, “I am the Existing One”

    The Jews in Jesus’ time would have clearly understood what He was saying. In fact, in verse 59 we read, “they took up, therefore, stones that they may cast at him”. Stoning was because they supposed that Jesus was here blaspheming, by ascribing to Himself, the very Name of YHWH.

    In the account of the Burning Bush in Exodus chapter 3, we read in verse 2, “And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush”. In verse 4 it says, “So when YHWH saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!””. Then, in verse 6 we read, “Moreover He said, “I am (Ἐγώ εἰμι. LXX) the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God”. Then in verse 7, “And YHWH said…”. And, 11, “But Moses said to God”. Then we have the famous Words Spoken to Moses in verse 14, “And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you”. And verse 15, Moreover God said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘The Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. This is My name forever, and this is My memorial to all generations”. In verse 12 we read God telling Moses, “and He said, certainly I will be with you”. The words “I will be”, are the same “’Ehyeh”, used in verse 14, “I AM”.

    It is very interesting that all of the above in Exodus 3, is not about God the Father as YHWH, but, “מַלְאַךְ יהוה” that is “The Angel of YHWH”, or, “Messenger of YHWH”, Who is not only a distinct Person from YHWH, as One sent by YHWH, but Himself also YHWH, and all of the Divine Names in the passage of Exodus 3. For those who honestly want to know what the Bible actually Teaches, and not rely on their own ideas of what the Bible should say. It is very clear, that there is more than One Person, Who is called YHWH, and distinct from each other. The One is the Sender, and the One is Sent, showing that they cannot be One and the same Person.

    It is very clear, that what Jesus Christ does say in John 8:24, can only mean that He is claiming for Himself, to be YHWH. The evidence of Scripture is clear to this fact, but there will still be those, who oppose the Deity of Jesus Christ, who will still fight against to very Word of God, to their own destruction!

    Jesus Christ cannot be YHWH, as we see that the Bible says that He IS, and be anything less than God the Father. The very Name YHWH means, Uncreated, Unchanging, Eternal. Which is true for God The Father, God the Son, and God The Holy Spirit. The Eternal, Unchanging, Triune God!
     
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  2. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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  3. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    The Jews didn't take up stones as described in vs 58 when Jesus said I am (he) in the previous verses. I think the pronoun is aptly inserted to distinguish the usage.
     
  4. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    verse 59 reads, “they took up, therefore, stones that they may cast at him”
     
  5. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    Right. You get the point.
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Didn;t they add the he in order to clarify that Jesus was referring name of Yahweh to Himself there?
     
  7. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    No need to as most versions after the KJV omit he
     
  8. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Interestingly, when our Lord walks on the water, He speaks to the disciples saying, "Be of good cheer! I am!"
    (Matthew 15:27 etc.).
     
  9. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    you mean chapter 14
     
  10. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    In other words the messenger of the LORD, became flesh and dwelt among us, The Word became flesh.

    Rectify from the following statement by Jesus, who the following nouns/pronouns in that statement applies to in Ch 3 of Exodus. Esp V 14

    I, myself, my, my, Father, me, He, God

    V 54 Jesus answered, 'If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing; it is my Father who is glorifying me, of whom ye say that He is your God;

    John Calvin commentary on Ex 3:14 First sentence only.
    14.I am that I am. The verb in the Hebrew is in the future tense, “I will be what I will be;” but it is of the same force as the present, except that it designates the perpetual duration of time.

    Is it possible that the one they called their God, I will be what I will be; Did thus, Matt 1:20 “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take to you Mary your wife, for that which is conceived in her is out of Holy Spirit. AND therefore V 25 she brought forth her firstborn Son.[fn] And he called His name JESUS. - I AM

    Gal 4:4 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born[fn] of a woman, born under the law,
     
  11. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Oops! :oops: And Mark 6:50.
     
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  12. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Glenn David Bauscher translated the Syriac Peshitta into English at John 8:24 as follows:

    "I said to you that you shall die in your sins, for unless you shall believe that I AM THE LIVING GOD, you shall die in your sins."

    Bauscher translated the Peshitta into English at John 8:58 as follows:

    Yeshua said to them: "Timeless truth I speak to you: Before Abraham would exist, I AM THE LIVING GOD."
     
  13. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I know about this, but the Original New Testament is not Syriac, but Greek. So any translations don't really matter much. Like the LXX, etc.
     
  14. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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