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John Calvin on The Extent of Jesus' Death

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Jun 17, 2021.

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  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Calvinism, and the so-called "Five Points of Calvinism", are supposed to be from John Calvin, otherwise these terms are wrongly used.

    Here are some comments by John Calvin, from his own commentaries, on the extent of the Death of the Lord Jesus Christ, which clearly shows that Jesus did not die for the "elect" only, as some who use the term "Calvinist", would argue.

    Mark 14:24

    Which is shed for many. By the word many he means not a part of the world only, but the whole human race

    John 1:29

    Who taketh away the sin of the world. He uses the word sin in the singular number, for any kind of iniquity; as if he had said, that every kind of unrighteousness which alienates men from God is taken away by Christ. And when he says, the sin Of The World, he extends this favor indiscriminately to the whole human race; that the Jews might not think that he had been sent to them alone. But hence we infer that the whole world is involved in the same condemnation; and that as all men without exception are guilty of unrighteousness before God, they need to be reconciled to him. John the Baptist, therefore, by speaking generally of the sin of the world, intended to impress upon us the conviction of our own misery, and to exhort us to seek the remedy. Now our duty is, to embrace the benefit which is offered to all, that each of us may be convinced that there is nothing to hinder him from obtaining reconciliation in Christ, provided that he comes to him by the guidance of faith.”

    John 3:16

    That whosoever believeth on him may not perish. It is a remarkable commendation of faith, that it frees us from everlasting destruction. For he intended expressly to state that, though we appear to have been born to death, undoubted deliverance is offered to us by the faith of Christ; and, therefore, that we ought not to fear death, which otherwise hangs over us. And he has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term World, which he formerly used; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet he shows himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when he invites all men without exception to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life

    Romans 5:18

    “He makes this favor common to all, because it is propounded to all, and not because it is in reality extended to all; for though Christ suffered for the sins of the whole world, and is offered through God's benignity indiscriminately to all, yet all do not receive him”

    Colossians 1:14


    " For, unquestionably, when God remits our transgressions, he exempts us from condemnation to eternal death. This is our liberty, this our glorying in the face of death — that our sins are not imputed to us. He says that this redemption was procured through the blood of Christ, for by the sacrifice of his death all the sins of the world have been expiated"

    Conclusive evidence from the writings of John Calvin, that he did NOT believe in the heresy known as "Limited Atonement", or "Particular Redemption", etc. In fact, Calvin's comment on Mark, is connected with the Lord's Supper, where Judas was present, and did himself take the bread and wine, which represents the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ!
     
  2. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    This is a very old chestnut. It was R.T. Kendall back in the 1980s who propounded the view that Calvin wasn't really a Calvinist. He was soundly refuted by a chap called Paul Helm.
    Calvin and the Calvinists
    Paul Helm - Wikipedia
    The problem is that many people do not understand what Calvinism is and confuse Calvin with his evil younger brother Hypercalvin. Calvin, in common with all those who followed him, taught that there was no sin so heinous that the blood of Christ was not sufficient to atone for it, that salvation in Christ was to be proclaimed to all indiscriminately, and that 'whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.'

    Edit: Readers may find this article by Helm helpful: The Many Shades of Calvinism by Paul Helm
     
    #2 Martin Marprelate, Jun 17, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2021
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  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    yes I attended Westminster Chapel in the mid 1980's when RTK was pastor. He used to bang on about being a 4 point Calvinist and wrote a book to show that Calvin never believed in the L. I had many discussions with him on this and his book once saved always saved. RTK sadly got involved with the Toronto blessing farce and moved to the Pentecostal side
     
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  4. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    I believe that many modern Calvinists don't know what Classical Calvinism is and call things hyper that are not. Labels are no longer accurate nor are they very useful. Most modern Calvinists call double predestination "hyper." Calvin undeniable believed D.P. I guess that would make Calvin Hyper. By modern standards, in other areas, Calvin was "low". My point is not an attack on reformed theology. My point is,v the labels are no longer very useful.
     
  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    According to Calvinists, whatever is thought to be Calvinism's errors are not because opponent does not know what they are talking about, or the flaw only applies to the mystical hyper Calvinists, and not to mainstream Calvinist.

    But ordinary Calvinists on this board have claimed that "the many" did not apply to everybody but the one. Note this specific problem in understanding was not addressed.

    And ordinary Calvinists on this board have claimed "the world" in John 1:29 and John 3:16 did not refer to the whole human race, but just the elect. Note this specific problem in understanding was not addressed.

    And ordinary Calvinists on this board have claimed Romans 5:18 does not say justification to life is "available" to all humanity. Note this specific problem in understanding was not addressed.

    Calvinism's Limited Atonement is a denial that God loves humanity, and that Christ died as a ransom for all.

    But rather than clearly admitting to the doctrine Christ did not die for all, we get word play. Did anyone claim Christ's blood was not sufficient to "atone" for sin? Nope. Did anyone claim the gospel should not be "proclaimed?" Here, although the non-elect, according to Calvinism, are unable to understand and respond to the gospel, it should be offered to them because God said so. And finally, according to Calvinism, only those previously chosen before creation as foreseen individuals, after "regeneration" (via Irresistible Grace)are able to call on the name.

    John Calvin certainly held bogus views, but his rejection of the idea Christ did not die for all is valid.
     
  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    His view was that we need to give to all lost sinners the Gospel, as only God knows whom would be His very own elect to respond to that message!
     
  7. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Right, the non-elect cannot understand the gospel according to Calvinism's "total spiritual inability" but we should "give" the Gospel as if salvation is available to all. Got it...
    And folks, note the disavowal of another Calvinist doctrine, "God knows whom would be His very own elect..." should say (according to the bogus views of Calvinism) God know who are His very own elect..." And according to the bogus doctrine, the "chosen ones" are regenerated with irresistible grace and given faith, so the witness of others is unnecessary to salvation. On and on the disavowal of their doctrine goes with every post...
     
  8. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Van, you really should read someone like a berkhof to get a summary of Calvinism , as we hold that God ordained that the message of the Gospel would be used by the Holy Spirit to enable all who were intended by the Father to get saved to now receive Jesus as lord!
     
  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    You either have no idea what Calvinism is, or you deliberately misrepresent it.
     
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Genuine faith … is granted by God … faith is a supernatural gift of God … faith is not something that is conjured up by the human will but is a sovereignly granted gift (cf. Php 1:29) (MacArthur, The Gospel According to Jesus, 172-173).

    Faith is God’s gift. In no degree could a natural man produce faith. It is utterly beyond him. Let us adore the God who gives it (Wells, Faith, 55).

    Faith and repentance are divine gifts and are wrought in the soul through the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit (Steele, The Five Points of Calvinism).

    Behold the actual bogus doctrine...

    And here is what I said:
    Right, the non-elect cannot understand the gospel according to Calvinism's "total spiritual inability" but we should "give" the Gospel as if salvation is available to all. Got it...
    And folks, note the disavowal of another Calvinist doctrine, "God knows whom would be His very own elect..." should say (according to the bogus views of Calvinism) God know who are His very own elect..." And according to the bogus doctrine, the "chosen ones" are regenerated with irresistible grace and given faith, so the witness of others is unnecessary to salvation. On and on the disavowal of their doctrine goes with every post...
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    i know what Calvinism teaches in regards to salvation, do you?
     
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  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Since you present misinformation over and over, your claim is dubious. I presented published sources for my view, you cited nothing specific.
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Except thnat your postings do nor ever reflect what we Calvinists really do believe!
     
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  14. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    And pray tell me, what is the contradiction between knowing the Biblical facts that
    1. The natural man cannot understand the Gospel (1 Corinthians 2:14),
    2. God knows those who are His (2 Timothy 2:19), and
    3. Preaching the Gospel to every creature (Mark 16:15)?

    The truth of the Gospel is that
    1. God opens the hearts of His people to understand the Gospel (Acts of the Apostles 16:14).
    2. The Lord Jesus will not lose even one of those whom God has given Him to save (John 6:39)
    3. We do not know who the elect are. As Spurgeon used to say, if God painted a yellow stripe down the backs of the elect so we could recognize them, we would only preach to them. But since He hasn't, we preach the Gospel to all, and assure them that if they will believe they will be saved (1 Corinthians 1:21).

    And BTW, you have not the faintest idea what Calvinism is, and that you can pull three quotations out of some book or other is no indication to the contrary.
     
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  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    As I said, they run away from their doctrine. :)
     
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    First Martin avoids actually addressing Calvinist doctrine. Did you see Limited Atonement explained? Nope
    Next 1 Corinthians 2:14 is misrepresented, it does not say the natural man cannot under the gospel or some of the other spiritual things. The idea is the natural man cannot understand "spiritual solid food (meat)."
    Did anyone say God does not know who are His? Nope so obfuscation on display
    According to Calvinism, the "world (humanity) cannot understand the gospel.
    God uses people as witnesses to open their hearts to the gospel. All "opened her heart, or ears or eyes" means is providing the means for comprehension. When the gospel is presented to those "open to God's word" it is heard and understood. See Matthew 13 once again.
    No one said Jesus will lose anyone given (placed spiritually into Him). More obfuscation.
    Calvinism declares individuals who never heard or understood the gospel will be given faith such that they are saved. Think unborn babies going to heaven.

    Were the three statements addressed? Nope. Just another denial of Calvinism's doctrines.

    Genuine faith … is granted by God … faith is a supernatural gift of God … faith is not something that is conjured up by the human will but is a sovereignty granted gift (cf. Php 1:29) (MacArthur, The Gospel According to Jesus, 172-173).

    Faith is God’s gift. In no degree could a natural man produce faith. It is utterly beyond him. Let us adore the God who gives it (Wells, Faith, 55).

    Faith and repentance are divine gifts and are wrought in the soul through the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit (Steele, The Five Points of Calvinism).
     
  17. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    First Van avoids actually addressing my post. Did you see any reference to my post? Nope.
    Next 1 Corinthians 2:13 is misrepresented. It says that 'The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them because they are spiritually discerned.' It does of course say, in the clearest terms that the natural man cannot understand the Gospel, because the Gospel is something spiritual. 'Solid food (meat)' is nowhere mentioned in the text. More obfuscation on display.
    Van fails to understand argument. More ignorance on display.
    Van pretends that kosmos always means 'humanity. More obfuscation (and ignorance) on display.
    Look at Acts of the Apostle 16:14 again. Did Paul open Lydia's heart to heed the things he spoke to her (i.e. the Gospel)? Nope. Did any of Paul's companions open her heart? Nope Did she open her own heart? Nope. Who opened Lydia's heart? God did. More obfuscation and denial of the plain meaning of the text.
    Yes, and unless God does that, people will remain in darkness, because that is what they prefer (John 3:19).
    Only if God opens the heart to receive it. It is God who makes the soil good. It does not make itself good. Those who hear, receive and fall away were never Christ's sheep (1 John 2:19).
    Is there any scriptural evidence that 'given' to Christ (John 6:39 etc.) is the same as being 'placed spiritually into Him' (and exactly where is that in the Bible?)? Nope. More obfuscation on display.
    Did either Van or I ever mention infants dying? Nope. More obfuscation on display.
    The three statements are great; they were the only good part of your post. the problem is that you don't understand them, have wrenched them out of their context.
     
    #17 Martin Marprelate, Jun 18, 2021
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2021
  18. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Meaning: "Everyone to the right of me is hyper".
     
  19. Martin Marprelate

    Martin Marprelate Well-Known Member
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    Not everyone, but if the cap fits, you go right ahead and wear it.
     
    #19 Martin Marprelate, Jun 18, 2021
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  20. Reynolds

    Reynolds Well-Known Member
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    Probably pretty accurate way of stating it.
     
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