John Calvin's Treatise Against the Ana-Baptist

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by rockytopva, Mar 6, 2018.

  1. TCassidy Administrator
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    No, shame on him for lying about JM's position on the blood and that he and his radio program are heading toward Hyper-Calvinism.
     
  2. James Donovan Member

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    Thank you for posting
     
  3. Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, in another thread I quoted from the preface of Beza and Calvin's Bible de Genève (without revealing to Rippon the source). Rippon's assessment? "Those are very harsh words, not irenic in the least."

    Oh, here's that thread:

    Forums > Baptist Debate Forums (Baptist Only) > Bible Versions & Translations > Can a Bible translation be a work of the Devil?
     
  4. SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    This seems to be the kind of life the "rebaptizers" suffered at the hands of other so-called "Christians".

    ........and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection:36And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: 37They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; 38(Of whom the world was not worthy) they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth...........

    Maybe these folks weren't perfect in their doctrine/practices but did God tell his NT churches to persecute, torture and murder anyone?
     
  5. Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    He might as well have called them "drones".
     
  6. Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Kenneth Good, Are Baptists Reformed?, p. 181:
     
  7. Jerome Well-Known Member
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    “Satan has translators….such as Sebastian Castellion….silence him….warn all Christians to beware of such a character, the chosen instrument of Satan”

    Said of a rival French Bible translator. This, in a Bible? Sick.


     
  8. Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yes, Jesus was really "Hot" towards the Pharisees!
     
  9. Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    I disagree with Dr Mac on his Lordship views, and end times, but other than those items, he has excellent theology, especially in regards to salvation!
     
  10. SheepWhisperer Active Member

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    There is a difference between false accusing/slander vs truth/rebuke. The Lord has the right to even call you a fool, but you ain't supposed to do it to anybody.
     
  11. rockytopva Member
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    To define the Anabaptist....

    "Anabaptists are Christians who believe that baptism is valid only when the candidate confesses his or her faith in Christ and wants to be baptized." - Anabaptism - Wikipedia


    " I have never taught Anabaptism.... But the right baptism of Christ, which is preceded by teaching and oral confession of faith, I teach, and say that infant baptism is a robbery of the right baptism of Christ." — Hubmaier, Balthasar (1526), Short apology

    Anabaptists were heavily and long persecuted starting in the 16th century by both Magisterial Protestants and Roman Catholics, largely because of their interpretation of scripture which put them at odds with official state church interpretations and with government.

    The Lutherans have since did the right thing and apologized to the Anabaptist for the persecutions waged against them. You would never, due to the high level of Calvinistic ego, get an apology from them!

    Lutherans reconcile with Mennonites 500 years after bloody persecution | Culture| Arts, music and lifestyle reporting from Germany | DW | 26.07.2010


    Bishop Mark S. Hanson doing the right thing and apologizing to the Anabaptist, again, something a Calvinist would never do. If I would ever meet the Bishop Mark S. Hanson would tell him that was a very decent thing to do and I take my hat off to him!

    Metro Lutheran | Lutheran church builds bridges, works toward healing with Mennonite neighbors


     
  12. rockytopva Member
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    In the statement, titled "Action on the Legacy of Lutheran Persecution of Anabaptists," the assembly repented for violent persecution of Anabaptists and for the ways in which Lutheran reformers supported persecutions with theological arguments.

    The statement asks for forgiveness "from God and from our Mennonite sisters and brothers" for past wrongdoings and the ways in which Lutherans subsequently forgot or ignored this persecution and have continued to describe Anabaptists in misleading and damaging ways. - Lutherans Seek Forgiveness for Persecution of Anabaptists
     
  13. rockytopva Member
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    And John Calvin describing the Anabaptist in misleading and damaging ways. Here is a list of the name calling....

    1. Called their doctrine a bottomless bit
    2. Accused them as being a canker, differing from all other sects of heretics.
    3. Accused them of foolish and false opinions
    4. Called their doctrine "Wicked"
    5. Accused them of being, "full of wicked & pernicious errours"
    6. Accused them as a "sect is a mass of such foolish & beastly opinions, as the like cannot be found, insomuch that it is wonder how creatures which bear the figure of a man, can be so clean without sense & reason, as to suffer themselves so to be deceived, & fall into fantasies more than brutish."
    7. Called their opinions, "Devilish"
    8. Called their doctrine, "Filthy"
    9. Accused them "to mingle God so with the Devil that it should not be discerned between the one and the other,"
    10. And "to the end that their villainy should not be perceived, lest we should have them in horror and execration."
    11. Accused them of making men, "Brute beasts"
    12. Invited, "they which be good shall know the desperate impudency, and so withdraw themselves, & fly from them, as from poison."
    13. Called them "poor fantasticals"
    14. Called them, "children in malice, and not in age"
    15. Recommended their excommunication from the church.
    16. Recommended that "after he hath been twice secretly warned, ought to be openly chastised, or excommunicated"
    17. Says. "For in saying that he which sinneth by ignorance, and not by his own will, ought to be cast out, they do declare, as they do openly teach and maintain, that if a man do sin willingly, he shall never obtain forgiveness of his sin, because that all voluntary sins, after their fantasy, are sins against the Holy Ghost, and irremissible. I say that this opinion is an execrable blasphemy against the grace of God, and a false doctrine very pernicious to drive all poor souls to despair. As I have seen the experience in some, which were for a time seduced to this wicked sect."
    18. Indirectly accused them of, "Mocking God"
    19. Recommends death, "We agree that the temporal sword is an ordinance of God, besides the perfection of Christ. So the princes & superiours of the world are ordained to punish the wicked, & to put them to death. But in the perfection of Christ, excommunication is the utmost pain, and not corporal death."
    20. Says, "What Devil constraineth these frantic men to make this addition, that the Magistrates in serving God, are shut out from the company of Christian men? Which thing is not done to the hangman for dogs, by their own confession."

    And I only made it half way through the discourse (TrueCovenanter.com: A Short Instruction for to arm all good Christian people against the pestiferous errours of the common sect of Anabaptists.).

    I say, there was no more villain alive worse than John Calvin! At least the Lutherans repented, and after reading this discourse an apology is deserved of the Calvinist also!
     
  14. thatbrian Well-Known Member
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    Are you a Lutheran?
     
  15. Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Calvin was not aware of the diversity within the Anabaptists. He was dealing with the worst examples.


    Do you read what you post? 'but in the perfection of Christ, excommunication is the utmost pain, and not corporal death.

    You revel in hyperbole.

    Honestly, with actual evil men in history you would rank Calvin as the worst? You are incredibly naïve or have an evil agenda.

    Those 20 points are not examples of playing nice, but wicked?! No way. You'll have to do better.
     
  16. rockytopva Member
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    I believe both Martin Luther and John Calvin started out with good intentions, but really got cold and hateful in their writings as they would age. The both of them would also suffer health problems and did not at all die in peace.
     
  17. Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Calvin was the milder of the two. Luther has been described variously as a raging volcano or as a bull in a China shop. Calvin though impatient and curt at times was a rather gentle man considering.
    Stay away from crazy websites.

    They both died in peace. Read about Calvin's last days from sources other than hateful websites that distort history.
     
  18. utilyan Well-Known Member
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    John Calvin would have burnt everyone on this thread on the stake.

    But he seemed to have soft spot for children.

    Read his institutes, he was for child baptism and follows a hereditary election.



    Most folks here wouldn't agree with Anabaptist because the were not based on "faith alone".



    No body was clean not even Martin Luther:

    On the Jews and Their Lies
    On the Jews and Their Lies - Wikipedia

    Martin Luther and antisemitism - Wikipedia


    • "First, to set fire to their synagogues or schools … This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians …"
    • "Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed."
    • "Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them."
    • "Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb …"
    • "Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside …"
    • "Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them …"
    • "Seventh, I recommend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow … But if we are afraid that they might harm us or our wives, children, servants, cattle, etc., … then let us emulate the common sense of other nations such as France, Spain, Bohemia, etc., … then eject them forever from the country …"
    --Martin Luther



    I also doubt anyone on this thread would kill anyone else here over what they believe.

    I'm as guilty for what John Calvin did , Martin Luther did, as anyone else in the world.
     
  19. rockytopva Member
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    Luther had been suffering from ill health for years, including Ménière's disease, vertigo, fainting, tinnitus, and a cataract in one eye. From 1531 to 1546 his health deteriorated further. The years of struggle with Rome, the antagonisms with and among his fellow reformers, and the scandal that ensued from the bigamy of Philip I, Landgrave of Hesse incident, in which Luther had played a leading role, all may have contributed. In 1536, he began to suffer from kidney and bladder stones, arthritis, and an ear infection ruptured an ear drum. In December 1544, he began to feel the effects of angina.

    His poor physical health made him short-tempered and even harsher in his writings and comments. His wife Katharina was overheard saying, "Dear husband, you are too rude," and he responded, "They are teaching me to be rude."
     
  20. rockytopva Member
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    Calvin, at times, could be quite irritable, but much of this can be attributed to his ill health. He was plagued with constant headaches which hardly ever left him. The pain was so intense that many nights he could not sleep. He also had some kind of disease of the trachea which, when he spoke too much, caused him to spit blood. Several attacks of pleurisy prepared the way for consumption, of which he finally died. He had acute hemorrhoids, the pain of which was unbearably increased by an internal abscess that would not heal. Several times intermittent fever laid him low, sapping his strength and constantly reducing it. He had gallstones and kidney stones in addition to stomach cramps and wicked intestinal influenzas. To top it all off, he had acute arthritis. In one of his letters to a friend he said, “If only my condition were not a constant death struggle.” Another Side of John Calvin