John Mac Aurthur on "Purpose Driven Life"

I would disagree in that I believe that the church including its pastors are in a severe state of disobedience when it comes to making disciples. It has substituted the truth with a lie by telling itself that Bible studies are the same thing as personal discipleship when they are not. Gaining more knowledge is not at all the same thing as teaching a person to follow Christ. Gaining knowledge can be done in a large lecture room but personal discipleship is done one on one just like Jesus did with his disciples. Just imagine a lecturer sending out his disciples one by one into a community. James 1:22 says that those who are not doers, are deluded. Knowledge does not take the place of doing. They must work together not apart from each other.

If fishing and making disciples were the same, then Paul would not have addressed the issue of follow up in Acts 20 where it was the Holy Spirit who made them the overseers. When one fishes for men he does not make disciples. He is doing evangelism. You cannot make disciples of non-believers. Once the person becomes a Christian then you can make disciples. Over the years I have met hundreds who have received Christ in churches with little signs of the new birth because there was no follow up. Once I began to follow them up I would say that the average person I was following up was further along after 3 months than the average person sitting in a church. I cannot think of one person who I have followed up that is not living the Christian life today. It was but just a few years ago that I took 20 young people in a church who were doing nothing except attending the church and within just a few months everyone of them were beginning to share their faith. After two years most of them were beginning to make disciples.

As I have talked with pastors about discipleship I noticed that after about two years the person is discipled or the person learns to sit and soak in the pew or they quit coming to church. The person is discipled and is productive or the person is a good pew sitter or just leaves never to be seen again.

Just like every Christian, some disciples are better than others but those who are born again, are disciples. Jesus either owns them or not. They are His or not. If he owns them then they are His followers. About 40% of scripture is filled with failures. Jesus admonished his followers many times. Sometimes they were not the best disciples such as Peter.

Mt. 27:57, "When it was evening, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who himself had also become a disciple of Jesus."

Jn. 19:38, "After these things Joseph of Arimathea, being a disciple of Jesus, but a secret one for fear of the Jews, asked Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus; and Pilate granted permission."

 

Both Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea are prime examples of what I am trying to get across. They were secret believers, not disciples. For a long time after their conversion they remained in the Sanhedrin but they remained quiet, not saying a word, not standing up as disciples speaking in defense of Christ. Why didn't they speak up for Christ at the events leading to Christ, the planning leading to his arrest? They were silent. Nicodemus said a little about trying an innocent man, but it was not enough. He was unwilling to face persecution. He was unwilling to act like a disciple would act. They were willing to be secret believers, or not disciples at all. Later they became disciples. They were not disciples when they were first saved. No Christian is. They have to grow to that position. It is a process called sanctification.

 

...then you believe in a works based salavation. There is no other way around it.

 

If I understand John 19:38 right, it appears that Joseph is called a passive disciple because he was afraid of the Jews.

Jn 19:38, "After these things Joseph of Arimathea, being a disciple of Jesus, but a secret one for fear of the Jews, asked Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus; and Pilate granted permission. So he came and took away His body."

Typically I would define a Christian disciple as one who follows Jesus. However even Judas was called a disciple and he was one of the 12. If being a disciple does not happen until after awhile then Jesus did not have any disciples at the point when He called them to come follow Him. History reveals that people who saw Christians being persecuted also became Christians and were persecuted too. When one was baptized in the those days and proclaimed Jesus as Lord then in essence they were renouncing the emperor as lord because the emperor was lord. By Proclaiming Jesus as Lord that mean the emperor could have that person executed because they renounced the emperor as lord.

I would distinguish the difference between a student and a disciple. A disciple follows the master. A student learns form the master. I think in America we have a lot of students studying about Jesus and about Christianity but do not follow the master. I think a lot of folks sitting in the pews on Sunday and I am also convinced a lot of pastors are included who study about Jesus but really do not know Him. They simply know about him.

A disciple may not know much of anything but he can follow the master and declare Jesus as Lord. The writings of the NT were mostly written to people who were new believers.

 

The Greek word for disciple is "mathetes" which means: a learner, pupil, disciple. I believe that every "true believer" is a disciple for the simple reason that he is indwelt by the Holy Spirit. There is no doubt that some are more apt pupils than others. Sometimes even the Saints grieve the holy Spirit because of their weak discipleship.

The passage is 4:19, and fishers does not mean disciples.

 

"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they ought to follow me, but most of them don't...."
Hodges 10:27

 

I may not agree with him. Even though I have never heard of him.
But we should love him like a brother in Christ.
Despite our differences.

 

Disciple

Merriam Websters definition of "Disciple"

1: one who accepts and assists in spreading the doctrines of another: as a: one of the twelve in the inner circle of Christ's followers according to the Gospel accounts b: a convinced adherent of a school or individual

2capitalized : a member of the Disciples of Christ founded in the United States in 1809 that holds the Bible alone to be the rule of faith and practice, usually baptizes by immersion, and has a congregational polity

I think most of us would agree at a minimum that definition 1b fits the definition of a Christian.