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John Piper Takes Leave

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Rhetorician, Mar 29, 2010.

  1. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Well, we have no idea what he's doing with the money. He could very well be giving it all back to the church in a 100% tithe for all we know. But it's none of our business, is it? The church is not under our jurisdiction. If it's our own church, we would have a say but we do not in this case.
     
  2. matt wade

    matt wade Well-Known Member

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    Oh let's all just have a group hug, start a thread on RW, and then watch webdog tell us to stay out of RW's business.... :laugh:
     
  3. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    I don't think so. If he did the same thing my position would be the same.

    He doesn't take a salary from Saddleback, btw.
     
  4. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    He posted it to his public web site for everyone to see. I hope he donates the money back to the church or something else.
     
  5. go2church

    go2church Active Member
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    Interesting on so many levels. I don't care if he gets paid or not, whatever. Still going some very limited speaking, so its not like is going to be under a rock. What I want to know is what if the elders said no, then what? Totally unique situation that though many can admire, most churches wouldn't go for it. If you need nine months , we need another pastor. I can just hear that meeting now.

    What are the odds he stays gone after the nine months? Pretty good I feel.
     
  6. thomas15

    thomas15 Well-Known Member

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    My question is "just who is this Piper fellow and why do we care about his work/pay arrangements?"

    Just asking
    Tom
     
  7. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    John Piper is the pastor of Bethlehem Baptist Church in Minnesota and is a speaker and author of over 30 books. Here is his website http://www.desiringgod.org/
     
  8. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Why do you care who he is? ;)
     
  9. rbell

    rbell Active Member

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    So at some point, won't someone have to 'pay the Piper?'




















    :D :D :D
     
  10. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    Obviously the man has become wealthy enough to make a decision like this. I am happy he is able to. If I wanted to take 8months off of work, I'd be out of job, on welfare, lose my house, et. et.
     
  11. Tom Bryant

    Tom Bryant Well-Known Member

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    Could it be that the church just loves their pastor and wants to have a healthy man and family as her leader so they have decided that it is an investment not just in the Pipers but also in the church. Or maybe they really believe in grace and not just as a doctrine... but no that can't be! :laugh:
     
  12. olefundybob

    olefundybob New Member

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    Some thoughts on an interesting post.

    His release to the public is interesting. My thoughts after praying for him.

    He indicates his marriage is rock solid. That is great! He states he has perceived a problem with pride that may have effected others and he needs a time of reflection and/or examination. If one has followed his writings, they understand his promotion of the English Puritan form of Calvinism. He has admitted a mission to promote the proper relations of justification, practical righteousness, and what he has called future justification.

    Those familiar with historical theology and Calvinism will understand that European Calvinism remained loyal to the definition of faith as seen by both Calvin and Luther. They saw faith as involving knowledge, assent, and trust.

    English Puritanism came to define faith as involving knowledge, assent, and commitment. You gain assurance by examining your commitment. This continual self examination focused on ones practical righteousness to gain assurance of salvation. Did your life yield the fruits of regeneration? Many Puritan divines were often overtaken with grief over the condition of their soul. Some would doubt their justification and seek to take steps to restore their soul. Pride was their constant companion. However, as some contemplated they gained no solace.

    Calvin and Luther both taught that assurance was gained by focusing on Christ. To Calvin assurance was the essence of faith. Our assurance was to contemplate and focus on what Christ did and our trust in Him. Thus there was less contemplative assurance and more objective assurance. The spiritual condition of our soul was seen in the process pointed to by Paul at Philippians 3.

    The Puritans contemplated and some agonized. The European Calvinistic influence was more contemplation. We are to acknowledge sin, confess, and seek to gain more of Christ as we move to greater commitment through the work of the Spirit in our daily circumstances. The struggle would never leave in this life, but Christ would give continual progress through the Spirit.

    The first thing that occurred to me when I read the statement from Piper was how it was framed and what possible relationship there was to his theology, if any. Some Puritans would exhaust themselves as they sought to "desire God." The Biblical concept of panting after God is to grow in trusting. We are to rest under the umbrella of once for all justification and the continuing advocacy of Christ. This is the protection from the condemnation of sin while we struggle with the presence of sin.

    We can learn some good things from the Puritans. But the possible weaknesses in their theology and spiritual outlook should be recognized.

    I wish Piper the best from God during his sabbatical. May he receive what he needs and may it be to the Glory of God.

    The baby boom generation pastors have often appeared as more touchy-feely. They talk of transparency etc. And some are perhaps more sensitive to ministry pressures.. The WW2 generation endured and sought to solve problems while continuing in everyday circumstances. They often went through hardship more common to all. The depression generation grew up taking it in stride. Some may find this as having led to family neglect. However, the statistics indicate family problems much more prevalent today among those in ministry. Society has changed. Perhaps there is also change in other things.
    I am sure some may see no connection. We should all bow and pray for him and his family.
     
  13. Bob Alkire

    Bob Alkire New Member

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    Good points.
    Not to take this to far off track. I had a professor in school who said we were heading for total different kind of pastor and this was back in the 60's. He thought to many were going to seminary for the degree latter to show off rather than building sound doctrine churches. He felt to much was for self not for the body of Christ, so we would have a different type of person in the pulpit.

    He used history to show how pastors of the past had to take a stand, such as John Bunyan and many others. He would show what pastors in other parts of the world had to go through and many of them were killed.

    Not to say if he is right or wrong, but I see more pastors and more people today who just can't take it, or burn out or what ever. Maybe we just aren't as strong today as yesterday, I don't know, but I know I haven't had to work as hard as my family in past years. 12 hours days or more were the thing and 6 days a week. Maybe another professor was correct, he said when a lot of places were going to 5 day work weeks from 6 day weeks, that divorce, unhappiness and mental problems would grow, he believed work is what kept us on track, I don't know.
     
  14. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    There were inklings that something was off last November, when Piper announced that the church would have to make do with the Bible instead of recitations of his own poetic compositions(epics such as "Judas, My Son", "Paul Malach and Talitha", and "The Cyrenian Cycle: Rufina").

    A Chapter Closes in Advent at Bethlehem
     
  15. zrs6v4

    zrs6v4 Member

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  16. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    Webdog, et al.

    I find these statements interesting:

    Perhaps if you realized that Piper has never taken one dime from his book royalties, you would be less critical.

    Piper could be a millionaire several times over--considering that many of his books are required seminary reading and are now in their third editions--and yes, he does give them away for free to those who can't pay.

    I have read that he does not even hold the copyrights to his own books. The copyrights are owned by the Desiring God foundation and the operating budget for Desiring God Ministries is largely based on those copyright-royalties.

    He lives in an older house in the city of Minneapolis and buys old, used cars. He also buys his clothes in second-hand stores.

    Simply put, money does not matter to this man--it is only a tool, not a status symbol. Besides all this, he requested not to be paid and the elders (of which there are 30 or so) over-ruled him and decided to pay him anyway.

    So, perhaps you didn't know these things...perhaps you did. Either way whether a church decides to pay it's pastor or not during his sabbatical, it is not for you to criticize.

    The Archangel
     
  17. SolaSaint

    SolaSaint Well-Known Member

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    Very interesting take on Calvinism. I had never considered this struggle from the Puritans in their eternal security. I can see how relying upon the doctrines of grace that one would have to examine their fruits of salvation to gain assurance. I definitely lean more towards Calvinism than towards Arminianism and have had similar troubling thoughts.
     
  18. Whowillgo

    Whowillgo Member
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    I would assume all of those posted here that have a problem with his receiving a continuing salary from the church he Pastors are current members in good standing of that church and have a valid reason to complain. Otherwise why would anyone complain about another local churches' decision?
     
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