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John Smythe and women deacons

Discussion in 'Baptist History' started by jonathan.borland, Nov 17, 2008.

  1. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Prophesying is not leading or having an authority. Paul speaks in 1 Corinthians about women praying and prophesying - and this is the same letter in which he states that women are to not teach or have authority over men. So I don't think that Philip's daughters were in any sort of authority.

    Deborah is a little bit of a different story. She was a judge - she was a civil judge.

    Here is what Wayne Grudem has to say in Systematic Theology:

     
  2. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    Really? Chapter and verse please.
     
  3. Jerome

    Jerome Well-Known Member
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    "Man and woman fell together; together they must rise. After the resurrection, it was a woman who was first commissioned to carry the glad tidings of the risen Christ; and in Europe, where woman was in future days to be set free from many of the trammels of the East, it seems fitting that a woman should be the first believer. Not only, however, was Lydia a sort of first-fruit for Europe, but she probably also became a witness in her own city of Thyatira, in Asia. We do not know how the gospel was introduced into that city; but we are informed of the existence of a church there by the message of the ascended Christ, through his servant John, to "the angel of the church in Thyatira." Very likely Lydia became the herald of the gospel in her native place. Let the women who know the truth proclaim it; for why should their influence be lost? "The Lord giveth the word; the women that publish the tidings are a great host."[Psalm 68:11]"
     
  4. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    Woops! Caught me!! That's what I get for answering a post in the midst of getting everyone ready in the morning.

    What 1 Corinthians says in chapter 14 is that women are to keep silent. "As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church."

    It is still Paul who in 1 Timothy says "I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor."

    Sorry for getting the two mixed up. :wavey:
     
  5. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    Again, this thread should be confined to the history of deaconesses/women deacons among Baptists.

    Debate about the correctness of having women deacons should be taken to another forum.
     
  6. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    OOOPS SORRY...

    Our denomination of Baptists has deacons and deaconesses...
    The last church I served in the deaconesses had the responsibility of preparing the communion table, preparing female candidates for Baptism, flower and card ministries, and counseling other females in ways males couldn't.

    But only the Deacons were ordained.
     
  7. annsni

    annsni Well-Known Member
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    See - this is why it's important to be able to understand the terms we're talking about. In our church, we have the same sort of jobs and some are done by women, some are done by men (the communion is handled by the deacons - the men) but none of those things are considered a leadership or teaching role. :)
     
  8. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    But this is not the same as being a pastor. Yes, women prophesied but that is not having authority over men as a pastor does.
     
  9. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    Not making excuses. Read the account and see for yourself. It was a judgment on Israel that God had to choose a woman.

    I'm not the only one who thinks this - my OT prof. also believes this. Besides, the Lord using Deborah as a judge does not negate the NT passages about who should have authority in the church and who should pastor.

    This is an illogical argument to use Deborah.



    1Then the sons of Israel again did evil in the sight of the LORD, after Ehud died.

    2And the LORD sold them into the hand of Jabin king of Canaan, who reigned in Hazor; and the commander of his army was Sisera, who lived in Harosheth-hagoyim.
    3The sons of Israel cried to the LORD; for he had nine hundred iron chariots, and he oppressed the sons of Israel severely for twenty years.
    4Now Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time.
    5She used to sit under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim; and the sons of Israel came up to her for judgment.
    6Now she sent and summoned Barak the son of Abinoam from Kedesh-naphtali, and said to him, "Behold, the LORD, the God of Israel, has commanded, 'Go and march to Mount Tabor, and take with you ten thousand men from the sons of Naphtali and from the sons of Zebulun.
    7'I will draw out to you Sisera, the commander of Jabin's army, with his chariots and his many troops to the river Kishon, and I will give him into your hand.'"
    8Then Barak said to her, "If you will go with me, then I will go; but if you will not go with me, I will not go." 9She said, "I will surely go with you; nevertheless, the honor shall not be yours on the journey that you are about to take, for the LORD will sell Sisera into the hands of a woman." Then Deborah arose and went with Barak to Kedesh.
     
  10. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    I started a thread on women's role in the church here, using Jerome's statement in the post above because I wanted to respond to it.

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=55156
     
  11. jonathan.borland

    jonathan.borland Active Member

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    Thank you for your comments. Pliny's quote was interesting. I do wonder if his "ministrae dicebantur" (they were called "deacons" or "female attendants" or "ministers") should mean deacon or rather what a secular meaning of the term would have been, a female attendant. What did Pliny mean?
     
  12. SaggyWoman

    SaggyWoman Active Member

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    She was already judging.
     
  13. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    Editted............

    Nevermind, it is becomes a pointless endevor after a while. :)
     
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