1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Joseph Henry Thayer

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Jun 4, 2021.

  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,149
    Likes Received:
    440
    Faith:
    Baptist
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The question really to me would be is His lexicon a valid one for the time written, and does he actually have heresy in that work?
    My understanding to this would be that even if he was a Unitarian, he would be honest to report that Bible Jesus was God, even if he did not agree with that !
     
  3. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2020
    Messages:
    10,149
    Likes Received:
    440
    Faith:
    Baptist
    My purpose for this thread is to show that Dr Thayer, whose Greek lexicon is much used by Christians, which I have used for almost 40 years, is very good, though he was a Unitarian in his theology. There are places in this lexicon, which is originally the work of Dr Grimm, where the Deity of Jesus Christ is indeed confirmed. This is because of the actual word meanings, and not to do with their personal beliefs. Some example are, when Jesus says that He is the "first and the last", in Rev. 1:17; 2:8; 22:13, under the Greek, "πρῶτος", this lexicon says, "with the article: ὁ πρῶτος καί ὁ ἔσχατος, i. e. the eternal One, Rev 1:17; Rev 2:8; Rev 22:13". This says that Jesus Christ IS the Eternal, Uncreated, Almighty God. In Rev. 3:14, Jesus says of Himself, that He is, "η αρχη της κτισεως του θεου". Where, for "αρχη", this lexicon says, "that by which anything begins to be, the origin, active cause", which says that Jesus Christ IS The Actual Creator, and not just an "agent", through Whom the Father Created!. Then, we have Acts 3:15, where Jesus is called "the Prince of life". Under the Greek, "ἀρχηγός", this lexicon says, "the author: τῆς ζωῆς, Act 3:15", which shows Jesus Christ as THE Source of all life, which is what this lexicon says under "ζωή" for Jesus, "ὁ λόγος τῆς ζωῆς, the Logos having life in itself and communicating it to others, 1Jn 1:1".

    The Jehovah's Witnesse, in their Emphatic Diaglot Greek New Testament, read for John 1:1, in the English on the right hand of the Greek text, "and the LOGOS was God". In their NWT, in Isaiah 9:6, they call Jesus, "Mighty God".

    Likewise, in the New Testament by the Unitarian, Dr George Noyes, we read in John 1:1, "and the Word was God". And, in Colossians 2:9, "for in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily". In Hebrews 1:8, for Jesus Christ, "Thy throne O God is for ever and ever". Though Noyes did not himself believe in this!

    Dr George Winer, another Unitarian, in his Greek grammar, says on Titus 2:13:

    "In the above remarks it was not my intention to deny that, in point of grammar, Σωτηρoς μωv (our Saviour) may be regarded as a second predicate, jointly dependent on the article τoυ (the); but the dogmatic conviction derived from Paul's writings that this apostle cannot have called Christ the great God induced me to show that thereis no grammatical obstacle to our taking the clause και Σωτ...Χριστoυ (from,'and to Christ') by itself as referring to a second subject"

    (A Treatise on the Grammar of New Testament Greek, p.162. 1877 edition. - words in brackets are mine)

    Grammar and meanings are one thing, but this does not mean that any of these believed in what they themselves admit!
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    52,624
    Likes Received:
    2,742
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The key is to have someone admit that is what the bible is teaching, even though they might disagree!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    26,995
    Likes Received:
    1,021
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Using the Blue Letter Bible study provisions, if you look at "spirit/pneuma" and scroll down to Thayer's, under meaning "3, d" you find this malarkey - "d. the spiritual nature of Christ, higher than the highest angels, close to God and most intimately united to him (in doctrinal phraseology the divine nature of Christ):
     
  7. Paul from Antioch

    Paul from Antioch Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2021
    Messages:
    506
    Likes Received:
    43
    Faith:
    Baptist
    In preparation for my teaching an Introductory course on Baptist History, I discovered that there are at least three different philosophies concerning the classification of Baptist History: (1) To simply IGNORE it claiming is merely a human-based theory--that ALL Christian religions were merely offshoots from the Roman Catholic Church; (2) To merely state that ALL Baptist organizations were merely an extention of the general Protestant Reformation; And (3) Baptists were, in fact, a distinctly different movement, since most (If not all) "Protestant Reformers" still kept most of the trappings on the Roman Catholic Church. Baptist historians such as John T. Christian, etc., maintain that what we call Baptists today can be traced to a line of separate dissatisfied persons from the times of the 1st Century AD churches that are mentioned in Revelations chapters 1-3. Naturally the RCCh & her offsprings will classify them just as the Pharisees did when Jesus was here on earth, which meant that such men & groups as they were MUST be done away with by any means (Including Death). Hence tracing their lives & herititage is not ab easy task, & is fraught with lies & other misconceptions. How an individual will present Baptist history, therefore would be dependent on the view that the instructor takes.
     
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2018
    Messages:
    16,039
    Likes Received:
    1,241
    Faith:
    Baptist
    • Informative Informative x 1
Loading...